Balk from wind up ?

[Double Up]

Situation 1:  Pitcher (RHP) toes the pitching plate from the wind up position, despite having the R1 on 1B.    Coach yells "step off"  and instead of releasing  his pivot foot ( the right foot)... F1 swings the left foot around to step off (similar to seeing an inside move at 2B).     I balked the kid  because it just  looked funny.   The coach argued that his hands weren't set.   My first though was there's no setting while in the wind up. 

  

Situation 2:   Same as before,  but this time  RHP  toes the rubber from the stretch.   Without setting the hands, but while in contact w/ the pitch plate,  the pitcher  steps off w/  the wrong  foot. Is this a balk?     The pitchers hands never came set...,  must a pitcher  step off  w/ the foot that's contacting w/ the rubber?

     

[udbrky]

1) Don't balk because it looked funny. Balk because when he picked up the non-pivot foot, he started his motion and thus, it's a start-stop balk.

 

2) You can't disengage the rubber with a foot that is not ... engaging the rubber. You have to disengage the rubber with the pivot foot. Where did he step and what did he do? 

[Replacematt]

3 hours ago, udbrky said:

2) You can't disengage the rubber with a foot that is not ... engaging the rubber. You have to disengage the rubber with the pivot foot. Where did he step and what did he do? 

Sounds like he had both feet in contact with the rubber. In this case, his left foot touching the rubber is irrelevant--his right foot is still the pivot foot. If he moves his left foot first, it's a balk for the same reason as in the first situation.

[isired]

1 is clearly a start- stop. For #2, assuming his left (front) foot is not touching the rubber, any lifting of that foot that doesn't result in a pitch or pick off to 1B (depending on what direction he moves that foot) would be a balk.

Edit: got distracted and forgot that in scenario 2 he never came set. Thus I think you have a balk, but not withvthe same explanation. If the pitcher is engaged and, for example, taking signs, he still has to disengage with his pivot foot, stepping back off the rubber.

[udbrky]

5 hours ago, Matt said:

Sounds like he had both feet in contact with the rubber. In this case, his left foot touching the rubber is irrelevant--his right foot is still the pivot foot. If he moves his left foot first, it's a balk for the same reason as in the first situation.

How do you do that in the stretch? I am having a hard time picturing this scenario to begin with.

[Replacematt]

Just now, udbrky said:

How do you do that in the stretch? I am having a hard time picturing this scenario to begin with.

I missed that part. 

The same logic still holds true, though, even if my post is entirely irrelevant in answering a question for a situation that wasn't there. Moving the non-pivot foot constitutes the start of a motion to pitch, throw, or feint. If there is not one of these done legally after moving the non-pivot foot first, it is a balk.

[udbrky]

Only thing I'm trying to picture is  step to 2nd/3rd and throw. (RH oviis)