IFF and the Shift

[Cav]

In Ohio, we're to treat fielders by where they play, not by how they are listed on the lineup.  Below is a 2015 case play from our state's UIC  

 

 Being 99% of the time a pull hitter, the defense puts on an infield shift when the batter comes up to bat with a runner on first base.  The shortstop plays almost behind second base, with the second baseman 2/3 of the way to first base from second.  The third baseman goes into shallow right field, between the second baseman and the right fielder.  True to form, the batter hits a soft "Texas Leaguer" just over the second baseman.  The third baseman, playing in right field, runs in to scoop the ball on one hop and throws to first base in an attempt to put out the runner.  At the time of his throw, the runner from first base (off on a steal attempt) has touched second base, but the batter has not yet reached first.  The throw sails into the dugout.  Next comes an argument from both coaches as to the proper awards.  The offense says it is two bases from the time of the throw and so the runner who had touched second should score.  The defense says the award is two bases from the time of the pitch, so no run should be scored.     

 

There is nothing illegal with this formation, and we as umpires just have to recognize that, in this play, the third baseman is now really an outfielder. [My emphasis.]  So, when he throws the ball into dead ball territory, the award is two base, from the time of the throw.  So, for this play, we will score the runner from first who had rounded second at the time of the throw, and place the batter-runner at second base.  That is what the umpires did in this game, and then had the opportunity to explain that the third baseman was not really an infielder to the coach.  If we allowed this, then all a coach would have to do is list his right fielder as the first baseman on the lineup card, and then play him in right field; any throw of his (for the most part) would be 2 bases from the time of the pitch.  Not legal, but nice try. 

[basejester]

35 minutes ago, noumpere said:

In OBR, both are defined (in Rule 2, I think).  Don't use the definition literally.

2.00–THE PLAYING FIELD
2.01 Layout of the Field
(1.04) The field shall be laid out according to the instructions
below, supplemented by the diagrams in Appendices 1, 2, and 3.
(1.04) The infield shall be a 90-foot square. The outfield shall be
the area between two foul lines formed by extending two sides of
the square, as in diagram in Appendix 1 (page 153).

Definition of Terms

An INFIELDER is a fielder who occupies a position in the infield.

This doesn't help us at all, unless we're at peace with the pitcher being the only infielder.

 

[ALStripes17]

In Ohio, we're to treat fielders by where they play, not by how they are listed on the lineup.  Below is a 2015 case play from our state's UIC  

 

 Being 99% of the time a pull hitter, the defense puts on an infield shift when the batter comes up to bat with a runner on first base.  The shortstop plays almost behind second base, with the second baseman 2/3 of the way to first base from second.  The third baseman goes into shallow right field, between the second baseman and the right fielder.  True to form, the batter hits a soft "Texas Leaguer" just over the second baseman.  The third baseman, playing in right field, runs in to scoop the ball on one hop and throws to first base in an attempt to put out the runner.  At the time of his throw, the runner from first base (off on a steal attempt) has touched second base, but the batter has not yet reached first.  The throw sails into the dugout.  Next comes an argument from both coaches as to the proper awards.  The offense says it is two bases from the time of the throw and so the runner who had touched second should score.  The defense says the award is two bases from the time of the pitch, so no run should be scored.     

 

There is nothing illegal with this formation, and we as umpires just have to recognize that, in this play, the third baseman is now really an outfielder. [My emphasis.]  So, when he throws the ball into dead ball territory, the award is two base, from the time of the throw.  So, for this play, we will score the runner from first who had rounded second at the time of the throw, and place the batter-runner at second base.  That is what the umpires did in this game, and then had the opportunity to explain that the third baseman was not really an infielder to the coach.  If we allowed this, then all a coach would have to do is list his right fielder as the first baseman on the lineup card, and then play him in right field; any throw of his (for the most part) would be 2 bases from the time of the pitch.  Not legal, but nice try. 

Lot of holes in that explanation. You have 3 OFs in FED ... Find them ... After that, the rest are infielders. If you're 3 OFs differ from what's on the lineup card, well then you have an unannounced substitution

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[maven]

1 hour ago, ALStripes17 said:

Lot of holes in that explanation. You have 3 OFs in FED ... Find them ... After that, the rest are infielders. If you're 3 OFs differ from what's on the lineup card, well then you have an unannounced substitution

I don't think that's supportable. Substitutions are changes in the lineup: we don't care where they are in the field.

[ALStripes17]

I don't think that's supportable. Substitutions are changes in the lineup: we don't care where they are in the field.

I disagree. As we need to know P and C of record. Maybe not a substitution by rule but I still believe that the designations in the field are supportable

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[noumpere]

5 hours ago, basejester said:

2.00–THE PLAYING FIELD
2.01 Layout of the Field
(1.04) The field shall be laid out according to the instructions
below, supplemented by the diagrams in Appendices 1, 2, and 3.
(1.04) The infield shall be a 90-foot square. The outfield shall be
the area between two foul lines formed by extending two sides of
the square, as in diagram in Appendix 1 (page 153).

Definition of Terms

An INFIELDER is a fielder who occupies a position in the infield.

This doesn't help us at all, unless we're at peace with the pitcher being the only infielder.

 

THat's why I told you not to take it literally.

 

I think all we can do is say "if they let it fall and could turn an easy double play, then the player is an infielder."

 

Or -- sometimes we just need to umpire.