Balk Subtleties

[ElkOil]

I'm not able to find a clear differentiation in the FED book about this, so I figured I'd put it out on the stoop and see if the cat licks it up... so to speak.

R1. RHP from stretch comes set. Steps off the rubber with his pivot foot first, but (a) moves it forward off the rubber, then throws to 1B or (b) picks his pivot foot up and in his move toward 1B, places it back down on the rubber, then throws over.

Are these balks?

[maven]

Yes. The rule is quite specific about how F1 may disengage. Among the allowed things F1 may do after coming set (including pitch to the batter and step & throw to a base) is: "he may lift his pivot foot in a step backward off the pitcher's plate which must be in or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitcher's plate." 6-1-3

Despite the syntactical awfulness of that clause, if he fails to do any of the 3 permitted things, then, with runners on, he has balked. Your (a) is not a step backward, and your (b) is not off the pitcher's plate. Balk.

Like many of us, I have balked both of these in "real life."

[ricka56]

If (a) was part of a jab/jump step pickoff move, then that'd be legal...depends what it looked like...HTBT.
I'd say the same for (b), but I probably be less likely to buy it.  

[ElkOil]

14 minutes ago, maven said:

Yes. The rule is quite specific about how F1 may disengage. Among the allowed things F1 may do after coming set (including pitch to the batter and step & throw to a base) is: "he may lift his pivot foot in a step backward off the pitcher's plate which must be in or partially within the 24-inch length of the pitcher's plate." 6-1-3

Despite the syntactical awfulness of that clause, if he fails to do any of the 3 permitted things, then, with runners on, he has balked. Your (a) is not a step backward, and your (b) is not off the pitcher's plate. Balk.

Like many of us, I have balked both of these in "real life."

Okay, that's what I was thinking when I read over Rule 6. *whew*

I wanted to double check, though, because I've seen and heard instruction given to high school pitchers about (incorrectly) stepping off, which got me to thinking that perhaps I was missing some detail or over-thinking.

All that notwithstanding, the pitcher may pivot on his pivot foot to throw to 1B or jump turn. With the jump turn, though, his pivot foot is not required to land behind the rubber, if my understanding is correct.

[maven]

2 hours ago, ElkOil said:

All that notwithstanding, the pitcher may pivot on his pivot foot to throw to 1B or jump turn. With the jump turn, though, his pivot foot is not required to land behind the rubber, if my understanding is correct.

For the jump turn and the jab step: these moves fall under "step and throw to a base," not disengaging. They are thus properly officiated by those criteria: the non-pivot foot must step toward the base thrown or feinted to. We don't much care what happens to the pivot foot, as long as the non-pivot gains distance and direction in a step.

The other move we see a lot is the "disengage & feint," especially to 1B, which can be legal. Technically, the pivot must touch the ground to complete the disengagement prior to the hands separating for the feint, but we are generally not too picky about that. This move must be officiated as a disengagement, and if the hands clearly separate before the pivot moves, it's a balk.

People make judging these moves more difficult than it needs to be by trying to develop criteria for each different move (LHP, RHP, the Pettit, jump turn, jab step, etc. etc). Instead, we need to know what makes a move legal: other than pitching to the batter, F1 must step & throw (distance and direction) OR disengage (step directly back and off the rubber). If not, it's illegal. Easy!

[martums]

In regards to the last post by Maven, what if the pitcher properly disengages, properly feints to 1B to get R1 back to first, HOWEVER, the first baseman is playing behind the runner and no where near first base.  I'm curious for OBR rule as well as FED ruling.  I actually had this situation in my first scrimmage game this year.

[ALStripes17]

In regards to the last post by Maven, what if the pitcher properly disengages, properly feints to 1B to get R1 back to first, HOWEVER, the first baseman is playing behind the runner and no where near first base.  I'm curious for OBR rule as well as FED ruling.  I actually had this situation in my first scrimmage game this year.

If the pitcher properly disengages, then he is no longer a pitcher...

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

[maven]

2 hours ago, martums said:

In regards to the last post by Maven, what if the pitcher properly disengages, properly feints to 1B to get R1 back to first, HOWEVER, the first baseman is playing behind the runner and no where near first base.  I'm curious for OBR rule as well as FED ruling.  I actually had this situation in my first scrimmage game this year.

Here's the confusion: once he disengages, the pitching restrictions no longer apply. At that time, there is no proper (or improper) feinting, as the restriction that prohibits F1 from feinting a throw to 1B no longer applies.

Remember, the issue with F3 playing back during a pickoff attempt (not a feint) is that the rule requires stepping and throwing to a base. When F1 throws to F3 away from 1B (and not in position to play on the runner), he violates that provision.

It is that same provision that makes throwing to F6 away from 2B (with R2) technically a feint: F1 in that case does not feint a throw (he actually throws it), rather, he feints a throw to a base (by throwing it near a base).

[ElkOil]

25 minutes ago, maven said:

Here's the confusion: once he disengages, the pitching restrictions no longer apply. At that time, there is no proper (or improper) feinting, as the restriction that prohibits F1 from feinting a throw to 1B no longer applies.

Remember, the issue with F3 playing back during a pickoff attempt (not a feint) is that the rule requires stepping and throwing to a base. When F1 throws to F3 away from 1B (and not in position to play on the runner), he violates that provision.

It is that same provision that makes throwing to F6 away from 2B (with R2) technically a feint: F1 in that case does not feint a throw (he actually throws it), rather, he feints a throw to a base (by throwing it near a base).

I'm glad you brought this up because it reminded me of a conversation I had with a partner a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't find the FED rule that stated F1, from the rubber, had to throw to a base. My partner told me that during one of his games, the pitcher threw to F5 with R3 while F5 was standing about 15' from the bag with no way to make a play on the runner. I thought this was illegal, but when I looked it up, found nothing. I must not be looking in the right place or not understanding what I did read.

Edit:

Then I found Case Play 6.2.4J, which seems to only apply to 1B, so I assume the proximity of the fielder doesn't matter if the runner is on 2B or 3B?

[Jimurray]

56 minutes ago, ElkOil said:

I'm glad you brought this up because it reminded me of a conversation I had with a partner a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't find the FED rule that stated F1, from the rubber, had to throw to a base. My partner told me that during one of his games, the pitcher threw to F5 with R3 while F5 was standing about 15' from the bag with no way to make a play on the runner. I thought this was illegal, but when I looked it up, found nothing. I must not be looking in the right place or not understanding what I did read.

Edit:

Then I found Case Play 6.2.4J, which seems to only apply to 1B, so I assume the proximity of the fielder doesn't matter if the runner is on 2B or 3B?

Your assumption is correct but it would be better to not assume. If a pitcher can feint to a base then he doesn't have to throw to the base. But he does have to throw to a fielder more near the base than another base.

[maven]

10 hours ago, ElkOil said:

I'm glad you brought this up because it reminded me of a conversation I had with a partner a couple of weeks ago. I couldn't find the FED rule that stated F1, from the rubber, had to throw to a base. My partner told me that during one of his games, the pitcher threw to F5 with R3 while F5 was standing about 15' from the bag with no way to make a play on the runner. I thought this was illegal, but when I looked it up, found nothing. I must not be looking in the right place or not understanding what I did read.

Edit:

Then I found Case Play 6.2.4J, which seems to only apply to 1B, so I assume the proximity of the fielder doesn't matter if the runner is on 2B or 3B?

As I said: the rule requires stepping and throwing to a base. Not to a fielder, to a base.

There are two ways to feint throwing to a base: first, by not throwing at all; second, by throwing somewhere else, that is, throwing to a fielder away from a base. (FED 2-28-5 explicitly defines a feint as "a movement that simulates ... a throw to a base...." but all codes are the same.)

By rule, feinting is not permitted to 1B (for FED, 6-2-4a; notice it's not "feinting to F3"): that's why throwing to F3 out of position is a balk. Feinting of either kind is permitted at 2B and 3B.