Going to the Mouth

[tankmjg24]

So in a bit of a disagreement with a fellow official.  What is the rule for going to the mouth while on the dirt, on the rubber, etc.  Does the penalty matter if there are runners on base vs. no one on?  Let me hear everyone's interpretation.  Thanks

[ElkOil]

FED 6-2-1e:

Illegal acts include bringing the pitching hand in contact with the mouth without distinctly wiping off the pitching hand before it touches the ball;

For infraction (e), a ball shall be awarded each time a pitcher violates this rule and subsequently engages the pitching plate. 

[Cav]

NFHS 6-2-1:

During a live ball and when not in contact with the pitching plate, F1 going to his mouth with his pitching hand and then touching the ball with that hand before he "distinctly wipes" that hand is never an infraction.  But, if F1 were to do all that, an infraction would occur if F1 were to then come in contact with the pitching plate.  The penalty would always be to change the status of the ball and add a ball to the count with or without other runners aboard.    

F1 going to his mouth with his pitching hand and touching a live ball with that hand while in contact is always an infraction whether or not he "distinctly wipes" his pitching hand before touching the ball.  The penalty is always to change the status of the ball and to either add a ball to the count without runners or declare a balk with runners on base.

My questions are:

Does going to the mouth include blowing on the hand?  I say, yes.

Is it an infraction if F1 while not in contact goes to his mouth, touches the live ball, asks for and gets time and a different ball, touches that ball with his pitching hand before he "distinctly wipes" that hand and then comes in contact and the umpire calls, "Play!"?  I say, no.

Finally, did I correctly punctuate that last paragraph?      

 

    

[maineump]

NFHS 6-2-1:

During a live ball and when not in contact with the pitching plate, F1 going to his mouth with his pitching hand and then touching the ball with that hand before he "distinctly wipes" that hand is never an infraction.  But, if F1 were to do all that, an infraction would occur if F1 were to then come in contact with the pitching plate.  The penalty would always be to change the status of the ball and add a ball to the count with or without other runners aboard.  

F1 going to his mouth with his pitching hand and touching a live ball with that hand while in contact is always an infraction whether or not he "distinctly wipes" his pitching hand before touching the ball.  The penalty is always to change the status of the ball and to either add a ball to the count without runners or declare a balk with runners on base.

My questions are:

Does going to the mouth include blowing on the hand?  I say, yes.

Is it an infraction if F1 while not in contact goes to his mouth, touches the live ball, asks for and gets time and a different ball, touches that ball with his pitching hand before he "distinctly wipes" that hand and then comes in contact and the umpire calls, "Play!"?  I say, no.

Finally, did I correctly punctuate that last paragraph?    

 

  

​Blowing in the hand is not an issue here, as it really depends on the weather - if cool, then it will come up at the conference (blowing in the hand is OK). I don't have an issue with blowing in the hand, even if it isn't covered, as I don't see what advantage it gives the pitcher by putting warm air on the hand.

As far as part 2 - you are correct - dead ball and he still hasn't touched the rubber.

Edited May 15, 2015 by maineump

[johnnyg08]

 

Does going to the mouth include blowing on the hand?  I say, yes.

 

 

    

​Under Federation rules you might be right.  I feel like I read something in a preseason guide about that.  That being said, I don't think it's enforced, especially in colder climates.

[ricka56]

He can blow on his hand, no matter the weather, as long as he's off the rubber and wipes his hand off before touching the ball. No special accommodations needed (other than perhaps a cold day reminder).

[johnnyg08]

2011 NFHS Preseason Guide

[noumpere]

So in a bit of a disagreement with a fellow official.  What is the rule for going to the mouth while on the dirt, on the rubber, etc.  Does the penalty matter if there are runners on base vs. no one on?  Let me hear everyone's interpretation.  Thanks

​FED:

 

If F1 is on the rubber it's a ball (no runners) or a balk (with runners).  If F1 is off the rubber, it's noting, if F1 then wipes and a ball if F1 engages without wiping.

 

OBR:

 

The pitcher can go to the mouth while on the dirt, but must wipe.  The first infraction is a warning.  The second is a ball.  (If it's to avoid pitching on an intentional walk, you can eject after three).  If you dojn't catch it and it turns into a pitch, then the manager can take the play or the penalty.  All in 8.01, I think.

 

Oh, and "blowing on the hands" is not the same as "going to the mouth."

Edited May 15, 2015 by noumpere

[ricka56]

​Oh, and "blowing on the hands" is not the same as "going to the mouth."

​How would you know if F1 was blowing on his hand or loading it with saliva. I'd treat it the same.

[noumpere]

​How would you know if F1 was blowing on his hand or loading it with saliva. I'd treat it the same.

​From MLBUM:

 

The pitcher, without contacting his mouth or lips, is allowed blow onto his bare hand at any time

provided he does not expectorate on his hand.

[tankmjg24]

Thanks guys for confirming what I already know, but what one of my hard headed partners fails to understand .  To give the back story, we have one pitcher in the area who will lick and wipe between each pitch.  He has a bad habit though of licking and wiping while in contact with the pitching plate.  During regular season we have given him a warning and told him to quit doing it on the rubber, but with the start of tournament play our association memo has stated no warning and to call everything as we see it.  Now my partner wants to call a balk and award a ball to the batter (a double whammy), while I have tried to explain it to him that it is either one or the other but not both.  Thanks. 

[Cav]

Tourney-time is a helluva-time to break bad habits. 

JV-time is the right time.

[noumpere]

 During regular season we have given him a warning and told him to quit doing it on the rubber, but with the start of tournament play our association memo has stated no warning and to call everything as we see it.

​Exactly why you shouldn't warn during the regular season (okay, taken as an absolute, that's too strong).  They won't learn from a warning; they will only learn from a penalty.

[johnnyg08]

We called 6 balks (no brainer, no stop) on Tuesday and we probably could've called 6 more.  It's the middle of the FED season here.  

What that tells me is that nobody is calling them, only warning.  

Make the calls.

[goody14]

In FED isn't the balk technically a start/stop (and not exclusively for going to his mouth) when the pitcher is on the rubber. He is bringing his hand up to come set and then not coming set (see case 6.1.3 P).

If this is true, then couldn't you use the same logic to get a balk for blowing into the hand while on the rubber.

[johnnyg08]

In FED isn't the balk technically a start/stop (and not exclusively for going to his mouth) when the pitcher is on the rubber. He is bringing his hand up to come set and then not coming set (see case 6.1.3 P).

If this is true, then couldn't you use the same logic to get a balk for blowing into the hand while on the rubber.

​Goody, you are correct.  It's a start/stop.  

[noumpere]

In FED isn't the balk technically a start/stop (and not exclusively for going to his mouth) when the pitcher is on the rubber. He is bringing his hand up to come set and then not coming set (see case 6.1.3 P).

If this is true, then couldn't you use the same logic to get a balk for blowing into the hand while on the rubber.

​Sure -- but it's also the logic the fed used to have for adjusting the hat, or rolling the glove to shake off the sign,  FED changed those, ...

 

And my earlier comments about blowing being different assumed F1 was off the rubber