Fun working Little League

[SteveJ]

I decided that I would help out one of the local LL's.  Plus the free hamburger and a soda was more than I could pass up. So after working two PONY playoff games I race to the LL ballpark.

 

The level is Majors. I do not know what age the players are but they play on a tiny little field. But the quality of play isn't bad considering their age.

 

I have a play at the plate. F2 is standing there with the ball waiting to apply a tag on this huge (much bigger than the rest of the kids) base runner coming in from 3B.  The runner plows into F2 knocking him back flat on his back. No attempt to slide, no attempt to avoid, never slowed down, just hit the smaller kid at a full run.  Obviously I call 'time". F2 is lying on the ground crying (but still holding the ball), coaches and mom come running out..what the heck is going on? I have never worked a game where mommy comes out on the field. I ask myself, "are things getting out of control"? 

 

I turn to the big kid and say "You're out and you're ejected for malicious contact". Now he starts crying and here comes his coach. .... both players are sobbing.  The ejected player's coach says "My player says he tripped into him, look he's crying".  I can see he's crying, I'm going to start crying too.  "Coach he didn't trip. What he did was lay a great block on F2 knocking him flat on his back. Take your player and go to your dugout".

 

I'm not done yet.  The team with the ejected player had used their only sub to replace the guy in the 9-hole after the 2nd inning.  So he wants to re-enter him in the 5-hole for the ejected player. I remember that according to 3.03 you can do that if 1 & 2 are done (That's right, I actually read the rule book that morning).  We are in the 5th inning, so yep, 1 & 2 are in the bag. So I announce the change.  Here comes the other coach. He's telling me that I am wrong and that the other coach is trying to "pull one over on me".  One what I wonder?  I wonder if I eject this guy if he's going to cry too...... He calls the district UIC on me, right then and there.  The UIC confirms to me (us) that the starter can re-enter in the 5-hole.  The coach says to me "I should protest the game"  I said, "That's fine, are you filing a protest?" He says I'll let you know.  He didn't. 

 

By now I am wishing that I had just gone home after my two earlier games.  I'm in over my head here... LL is too much for me. I'm going back to the older kids....maybe no lower than varsity HS. No more LL for me.  My hat goes off to the you LL officials out there!

[MB_Ump]

Majors is 12 and younger. No MC in LL but you get the same outcome by getting the out for not attemping to avoid the tag and the ej for unsportman like conduct. Free substitution in LL majors/minors.

[Rich Ives]

Free substitution in LL majors/minors.

 

NO NO NO.

 

IFF they are using continuous batting order then there is free sub on defense, but you cannot switch the batting order around which would happen in the OP. If you get to a missing-player slot in the lineup it is skipped without penalty.   Minors must use CBO. Optional (seasonal, not by game) with majors.

 

Poster got the sub rule sort of right for 9-man lineup. The starter can re-enter anywhere in the lineup but only after the player who entered for him has batted once and played defense for six consecutive outs. What happened with other subs doesn't matter. Asking of both sub 1 and sub 2 "were done" doesn't really mean anything. They can remain in the lineup if the starters re-enter in a different position in the order.

[SteveJ]

 

Free substitution in LL majors/minors.

 

NO NO NO.

 

IFF they are using continuous batting order then there is free sub on defense, but you cannot switch the batting order around which would happen in the OP. If you get to a missing-player slot in the lineup it is skipped without penalty.   Minors must use CBO. Optional (seasonal, not by game) with majors.

 

Poster got the sub rule sort of right for 9-man lineup. The starter can re-enter anywhere in the lineup but only after the player who entered for him has batted once and played defense for six consecutive outs. What happened with other subs doesn't matter. Asking of both sub 1 and sub 2 "were done" doesn't really mean anything. They can remain in the lineup if the starters re-enter in a different position in the order.

 

They are allowed to bat 9. The team with the ej'd player had 10-players. Like I stated in the OP the sub had gone into the game in the 3rd inning. The starter in the 9-hole was their only available player. Since his sub had batted and had played at least 6 continuous outs he was okay to use wasn't he?  Did I misunderstand something?

[Majordave]

SteveJ said: "I'm in over my head here... LL is too much for me. I'm going back to the older kids....maybe no lower than varsity HS. No more LL for me.  My hat goes off to the you LL officials out there!"

 

 

Steve, I 100% agree.  I tried to help out the local assigner a couple of years ago by doing some younger 60' baseball for him.  I wrote on here about it.  I called my saga, "I Sucked on Toast Last Night........" or something like that.  

 

As you said, I was in way over my head with the crazy parents and coaches and the largely uncoached players, the whole circus of it......

 

Did I learn my lesson?  No, last year I did the same thing for another guy and worked a tourney of 12U and had another fiasco similar to the year before.  I think I have learned now.

 

I don't think 60' baseball is anything like 90' baseball in terms of game management, expectations, mechanics, rules, etc.  It is just too hard for me to go back.

 

I still cannot believe I coached 12U ball for 7 or 8 years, more than 15 years ago.  I think the parents, most coaches and the whole experience was just as crazy then but I have no memory if I was that crazy or not. (hahaha) I do know I never had any umpire confrontations.  Me and another coach had words over his players elbowing mine going around the bases and my teams beating his 24-0 in four innings and stuff like that.  I was the guy who built a little league practice field in his yard and had daily practices six days a week with extra sessions for those who wanted and needed it.  I had the whole set of Tom Emanski's Baseball World practice and hitting videos.  I built a bullpen with a mound with real red Georgia clay I bought specifically for the mound and a buried plate in the bullpen and on the practice field.  (All of this effort was rewarded.  We won, a lot, and won big most of the time. Several regular season and tourney championships.  One year all 12 of my players made the respective all-star teams for their ages.  I was (am) insane.  However, I gave lessons to any kid who asked.  I was essentially coaching half to two-thirds of the league in some way or another.  I even let other coaches came to our practices to get tips and pointers on drills and practice management.  I had the whole league buying thundersticks, wiffle golf balls, and an upside down "L" shaped practice tee with a brush on the end of the top arm  to hold the ball called the "K-Tee" because the guy who made them was from Katy, Texas.  Eventually the league's T-ball division made it the game tee for their games to keep the kids from developing the nasty T-ball stroke for fly balls.  I don't live there anymore but the quality of baseball in that little town improved tremendously due to the effort.   

[Rich Ives]

 

 

Free substitution in LL majors/minors.

 

NO NO NO.

 

IFF they are using continuous batting order then there is free sub on defense, but you cannot switch the batting order around which would happen in the OP. If you get to a missing-player slot in the lineup it is skipped without penalty.   Minors must use CBO. Optional (seasonal, not by game) with majors.

 

Poster got the sub rule sort of right for 9-man lineup. The starter can re-enter anywhere in the lineup but only after the player who entered for him has batted once and played defense for six consecutive outs. What happened with other subs doesn't matter. Asking of both sub 1 and sub 2 "were done" doesn't really mean anything. They can remain in the lineup if the starters re-enter in a different position in the order.

 

They are allowed to bat 9. The team with the ej'd player had 10-players. Like I stated in the OP the sub had gone into the game in the 3rd inning. The starter in the 9-hole was their only available player. Since his sub had batted and had played at least 6 continuous outs he was okay to use wasn't he?  Did I misunderstand something?

 

 

You got the result OK.  This post says you understood the requirement OK.

 

The "free substitution" wording  used by MB_Ump  was incorrect. 

 

Your first post could be confusing because of your "1&2 are done" statement which doesn't describe the requirement properly.

 

Just trying to clear up any misunderstandings people might glean from the thread.

[bam]

I've been asked a half dozen times over the past couple years to "help" local leagues.  I just smile and say "I really appreciate the offer, but no thanks".

 

LL is THE worst, followed closely by AAU.

[SteveJ]

I've been asked a half dozen times over the past couple years to "help" local leagues.  I just smile and say "I really appreciate the offer, but no thanks".

 

LL is THE worst, followed closely by AAU.

I do not think that LL is any worst than any other youth leagues. Since I have only recently been working ages 12 and below I am surprised by several things:

 

1. The lack of baseball rules knowledge that most coaches have which causes them to be more argumentative and disrespectful.

2. How rowdy the parents/fans are.

3. How disrespectful some of the players are.

 

For this I put most of the blame on the various leagues and umpires. If it's club ball the TD is trying to make a profit so the umpires are expected (in some of the cases I have seen) to take more crap and avoid EJ's (keep the customer happy). I do not work for those type of TD's.  In my very limited LL experience (and other lower level youth ball) I think that it is the lack of umpire training as to how to deal with situations.  When some umpires let coaches/parents/players get away with crap then they will expect to be able to dish it out to every umpire.  Then they start playing in a highly competitive league like the one I work for where the officials are trained how to deal with situations (and expected to handle them promptly and decisively). And where fines and suspensions are always the result of EJ's. Then they have a very difficult time adjusting.

 

How many of us have heard, "Well the last umpires let me do it that way" or something like that?  Working as a on-field trainer/evaluator for a league I have found that it is difficult to get umpires to do everything the same way (when it comes to enforcing rules).   When it comes to taking short-cuts or not enforcing the "little things" I see most problems with "experienced" umpires. Then they wonder why they're not getting games.

[KLAH316]

I've been asked a half dozen times over the past couple years to "help" local leagues.  I just smile and say "I really appreciate the offer, but no thanks".

 

LL is THE worst, followed closely by AAU.

Out here, PONY is by far the next worst next to LL!!!!!

[Larry in TN]

From my ~10 years as a Little League father, scorer, and assistant-assistant-coach, the problem is that nobody reads the rules because nobody thinks they NEED to read the rules--and this includes a majority of the umpires.

 

I have been reading the rules, and participating here, for some time which has greatly increased my knowledge of the game and what should be happening.  Every time something screwy happens I'm back in the book, then often back in the forum, to figure it out.  It's gotten to the point that all the coaches, and some of the umpires, are coming to me with rules questions.  (That last part is kinda sad, actually)  Still, I've had no luck at all in getting anyone to actually READ the rules!  I guess it's easier to just ask me!  It's pretty frustrating.

 

One success story was a coach, on who's team my son played for two seasons, who had previously been known for coming bounding out of the dugout yelling his disapproval of a call at the umpires (and who surprisingly never got ejected for it--see above about umpires...).  I taught him how to properly appeal calls calmly, to the correct umpire, and with specific reasons for his appeal.  I received an email from him a couple of weeks ago about his successful attempt to get a softball umpire to change her call on his runner at home from an OUT to OBS and a score.  He was quite proud that he had asked for the OBS call and not INT!  

 

I'd really like to hear from someone in a LL program where this stuff is done right.  I want to know how that happens as I can't imagine it ever happening around here.