No tag up & ball goes into DBT

[BuckeyeMike]

Had this situation last night:

R1, 1 out, batter hits a sky ball.  R1 doesn't tag up and is between 2B and 3B when F4 catches the ball 20 feet into the outfield.  F4 fires to 1B to retire R1 (who is still between 2B & 3B), but overthrows and the ball goes into DBT. 

 

Am I correct in my interpretation that this is still the first play by an infielder, even though F4 was well into the outfield, and bases should be awarded from TOP not TOT?  

 

If so, then R1 will be awarded 3B.  However, in FED,  R1 will be out upon proper appeal because he was on or beyond a succeeding base when the ball was declared dead and cannot return to touch the base left too early.

FED Rule: 8-4.2q        FED Case Play: 8-2.5a

 

In OBR, R1 is allowed and must re-touch 1B. 

 

Is this correct?

 

[noumpere]

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not.   Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM.  Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

 

I will add that in FED  R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

[Dash Riprock]

 Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM.

There used to be at least one pro interp. that the award is TOT (1st play by an infielder excepted).  R1 is initially awarded the plate, but if and when he retouches 1st base, the award is changed to 3rd base.

[BuckeyeMike]

Whoa.....what???    Are you saying in OBR it doesn't matter or in all codes?

 

Fed base-running awards table says otherwise.

TWO-BASES

6. For any subsequent play by an infielder or for any throw by an outfielder and ball goes out of play or lodges in or under fence = TOT

[BuckeyeMike]

Dash, yes, that is what the BRD says too. 

 

For those that have the BRD, it's # 462 and page 285 in the 2014 edition.

[ALStripes17]

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not. Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM. Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

I will add that in FED R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

In FED, R1 can NOT go back and touch 1B bc he was past a successive base when the ball became dead.

And remember all awards are from last LEGALLY acquired base so any award on this play for R1 would be from 1B.

[grayhawk]

 

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not. Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM. Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

I will add that in FED R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

In FED, R1 can NOT go back and touch 1B bc he was past a successive base when the ball became dead.

And remember all awards are from last LEGALLY acquired base so any award on this play for R1 would be from 1B.

 

 

You may be saying the same thing.  He can PHYSICALLY retouch, but not LEGALLY.  You certainly wouldn't make any kind of call on him if there is no proper appeal, would you?

 

Agree 100% with your second point.  TOT or TOP is irrelevant on this play in Fed because R1 would never be awarded home since his last legally acquired base was first.

[ALStripes17]

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not. Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM. Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

I will add that in FED R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

In FED, R1 can NOT go back and touch 1B bc he was past a successive base when the ball became dead.

And remember all awards are from last LEGALLY acquired base so any award on this play for R1 would be from 1B.

You may be saying the same thing. He can PHYSICALLY retouch, but not LEGALLY. You certainly wouldn't make any kind of call on him if there is no proper appeal, would you?

Agree 100% with your second point. TOT or TOP is irrelevant on this play in Fed because R1 would never be awarded home since his last legally acquired base was first.

Great point gray. Would be interesting to see a runner go all the way back to retouch (not legally of course) then a "smart" DTHC say 'appeal 1B anyway' and calling the runner out.

May even get an ejection (OTHC is not going to be happy)

[grayhawk]

 

 

 

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not. Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM. Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

I will add that in FED R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

In FED, R1 can NOT go back and touch 1B bc he was past a successive base when the ball became dead.

And remember all awards are from last LEGALLY acquired base so any award on this play for R1 would be from 1B.

 

You may be saying the same thing. He can PHYSICALLY retouch, but not LEGALLY. You certainly wouldn't make any kind of call on him if there is no proper appeal, would you?

Agree 100% with your second point. TOT or TOP is irrelevant on this play in Fed because R1 would never be awarded home since his last legally acquired base was first.

 

Great point gray. Would be interesting to see a runner go all the way back to retouch (not legally of course) then a "smart" DTHC say 'appeal 1B anyway' and calling the runner out.

May even get an ejection (OTHC is not going to be happy)

 

 

That would be interesting.  Try explaining that one to OC in 5 words or less!

[ALStripes17]

All correct -- except it doesn't matter here whether F4 is an infielder or not. Awards like this are always TOP, per interp in MLBUM. Someone else will be along to quote the exact section.

I will add that in FED R1 *can* return and touch first, but he's still liable to be out on appeal.

In FED, R1 can NOT go back and touch 1B bc he was past a successive base when the ball became dead.

And remember all awards are from last LEGALLY acquired base so any award on this play for R1 would be from 1B.

You may be saying the same thing. He can PHYSICALLY retouch, but not LEGALLY. You certainly wouldn't make any kind of call on him if there is no proper appeal, would you?

Agree 100% with your second point. TOT or TOP is irrelevant on this play in Fed because R1 would never be awarded home since his last legally acquired base was first.

Great point gray. Would be interesting to see a runner go all the way back to retouch (not legally of course) then a "smart" DTHC say 'appeal 1B anyway' and calling the runner out.

May even get an ejection (OTHC is not going to be happy)

That would be interesting. Try explaining that one to OC in 5 words or less!

My mom was always the best at explaining in 5 words or less:

Because I said so ... :)