Dead Ball Strike 3 (Ejection)

[flastyle727]

Interesting little discussion I had leading to an ejection

 

Runners on 1st and 2nd -- 2 outs - 0-2 count.

Batter attempts a swing, ball hits him the hands. Definitely went on the swing, no question. So he is out on the dead ball Strike 3, inning over.

 

Of course OC wants to discuss from 3B he comes down and says “The ball hit him in the hands right†I said “Yes it hit him in the hands, on the swingâ€. He says “so it him in the hands on the check swing†I said “No it hit him on the swing, no check swing involved†He says “well then why did you kill it†I said “It’s a dead ball 3^rd strike, he is outâ€

 

He decides to start walking away and as he turns his back he says “This is f***ing incredible, you guys are terrible†….so I say “Coach you’re done†but I don’t give him the signal of ejection, he turns around and screaming at me so now I give the empathic ejection signal.

 

We watched the video after the game….it looks awesome…looks like I gave him his chance to walk away and he came back aggressively… I didn’t bait him into an ejection because I said coach your done so he was already ejected; however I did bait him into looking like the a**hole.

 

 

Here is my thinking: I could have chucked him when he had his back to me, since he got personal, however the impression would have been I was aggressive. By just saying “Coach you’re done†he turned around to get his monies worth so the crowd and assignors saw that on video and then the ejection signal.  Bottom line I could have ejected him 10 seconds earlier but the perception would have been much different…..got to be smarter than the rats.

[Mr Umpire]

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around?  The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it".   Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout.

 

If you want to look like the non-aggressor, even in this, then still give the signal but don't make it a loud verbal confrontational gesture.  Just do as you did but still give the signal so it is clear he is gone.  Playing a game to see who is the aggressor is not a good one to play.  Don't become the aggressor by following him or getting loud when it is not necessary.  But, the mechanics should be the same so it is clear what is the call.

 

If he did not turn around and you were evaluated, how do you think it would have looked then?  That is the most important question to consider.  If your evaluator is ok with it, then fine.  Do as you did.  But, if he didn't make a scene, would your evaluator be ok with that depending on how the rest of it went?

 

I just prefer to be consistent and not worry about "How can I turn it on them".  Some are smarter than you think.

[Mr Umpire]

No matter what he does, he has to go.  You ejected him regardless of what you said or what mechanic you didn't do.  Once you did that, he has to go even if you were the only one who heard it (Or thought you were).  He may have heard it but dismissed it since he had his back turned.

 

It worked this time and you looked good doing it.  Great.  But, if it didn't work out as you'd hoped, he still has to leave regardless or you will lose any authority with him and not look good for your assignor.  As soon as you tell your assignor "I ejected him in the 5th but didn't make him leave before he came storming on the field after my partner in the 7th", no assignor is going to be happy with that.

 

Don't ever act like you didn't EJ someone.  That has a very bad potential of coming back and biting you or your partner.  Always follow through with an EJ even if it is an unpopular or even ill-advised one.  You are not liable if they leave.  But, you may be if they don't.

[Texas Manny]

The only thing I would have done differently is that you should have performed the ejection mechanic at the same time you said "Coach, you're done." That is the only thing.

 

Nice job.

 

Also, I know many of you won't like this, but I wouldn't call ballplayers or managers "rats". I know it is customary and it's done at all levels. I just wouldn't do it. Doesn't make you wrong, and myself right, vice avers. I'm just saying.

[Scratch Franzeo]

I had a similar situation in a varsity tournament this year.  R1 and R3, 1 out with a 3-2 count.  The ball hit the batters fore-arm on the swing.  I immediately signaled dead ball, and verbalized, "dead ball - strike 3 - batter's out."  The 3rd base coach was furious! He went on to tell me that the laws of physics would prevent the ball from bouncing off his players arm and that it obviously was a foul ball. 

 

Me: "I don't know the laws of physics, but I do know that the ball hit his arm and he's out."

Coach: "This is ridiculous"

Me: "That's enough, please return to the box."

Coach: general mumbling back to coaches box

 

After the game, one of his assistant coaches approached me.  He said, "you won't hear Coach XXXXXX admit it, but he was wrong.  Our 3rd baseman (the batter) told us after the game that the ball hit is arm."

 

I told him thanks and wished him luck in the tournament.

[flastyle727]

No matter what he does, he has to go.  You ejected him regardless of what you said or what mechanic you didn't do.  Once you did that, he has to go even if you were the only one who heard it (Or thought you were).  He may have heard it but dismissed it since he had his back turned.

 

It worked this time and you looked good doing it.  Great.  But, if it didn't work out as you'd hoped, he still has to leave regardless or you will lose any authority with him and not look good for your assignor.  As soon as you tell your assignor "I ejected him in the 5th but didn't make him leave before he came storming on the field after my partner in the 7th", no assignor is going to be happy with that.

 

Don't ever act like you didn't EJ someone.  That has a very bad potential of coming back and biting you or your partner.  Always follow through with an EJ even if it is an unpopular or even ill-advised one.  You are not liable if they leave.  But, you may be if they don't.

Well said. Thanks for the input!!

[MidAmUmp]

He's gone whether you've made the ejection motion or not. If he doesn't turn around for you to make the motion who cares as long as he leaves. Make sure you've said it loud enough for him to know he's been ejected. The majority are not going to just keep walking away without turning back around because their thought is - I can say what I want as long as I'm walking away.

I don't see anything wrong with what you did. High level umpires do this...especially if they are on tv. Anything to keep the spotlight off of you. It's all about appearance.

[flastyle727]

He's gone whether you've made the ejection motion or not. If he doesn't turn around for you to make the motion who cares as long as he leaves. Make sure you've said it loud enough for him to know he's been ejected. The majority are not going to just keep walking away without turning back around because their thought is - I can say what I want as long as I'm walking away.

I don't see anything wrong with what you did. High level umpires do this...especially if they are on tv. Anything to keep the spotlight off of you. It's all about appearance.

 

That was exactly my thought process, I am being recorded and he cowardly turned his back, I've got to get him back this way then I can emphatically eject or he can continue walking and I've ejected him (or let him stay which the above post corrected me on).

 

I played with   and  I was glad he came to get his "money worth" because on the tape it looked as if I dumped for whatever he said on his way back....and the report would have been real easy. It is Fall ball, no report needed

[ricka56]

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around?  The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it".   Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout.

I don't agree with this part. The umpire doesn't have to go to the DO and look the aggressor. He can just refuse to restart the game until the EJ'd coach is gone. Sooner or later, he goes or someone (other than the umpire) makes a bigger ass of themselves. Oh, yeah, it could turn ugly, maybe worse case is that he suspends the game, sits in the change room, waits  and resumes the game when coach is gone.

 

I have used the quiet ejection and the emphatic one. Every sitch is a HTBT case. YMMV

[Mr Umpire]

 

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around?  The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it".   Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout.

I don't agree with this part. The umpire doesn't have to go to the DO and look the aggressor. He can just refuse to restart the game until the EJ'd coach is gone. Sooner or later, he goes or someone (other than the umpire) makes a bigger ass of themselves. Oh, yeah, it could turn ugly, maybe worse case is that he suspends the game, sits in the change room, waits  and resumes the game when coach is gone.

 

I have used the quiet ejection and the emphatic one. Every sitch is a HTBT case. YMMV

 

Anything which is done with a "considerable" amount of time in between when they were talking at the plate and him going to the dugout to sit down will not look good for the umpire.  Even if he stands at the plate quietly and waits, he will look like he is instigating something with the coach.  You can go to his dugout to continue to "keep it quiet" or you can stand at the plate for all to see, your choice.  But, it won't look good if the events do not happen like the OP did.

[ricka56]

 

 

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around?  The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it".   Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout.

I don't agree with this part. The umpire doesn't have to go to the DO and look the aggressor. He can just refuse to restart the game until the EJ'd coach is gone. Sooner or later, he goes or someone (other than the umpire) makes a bigger ass of themselves. Oh, yeah, it could turn ugly, maybe worse case is that he suspends the game, sits in the change room, waits  and resumes the game when coach is gone.

 

I have used the quiet ejection and the emphatic one. Every sitch is a HTBT case. YMMV

 

Anything which is done with a "considerable" amount of time in between when they were talking at the plate and him going to the dugout to sit down will not look good for the umpire.  Even if he stands at the plate quietly and waits, he will look like he is instigating something with the coach.  You can go to his dugout to continue to "keep it quiet" or you can stand at the plate for all to see, your choice.  But, it won't look good if the events do not happen like the OP did.

 

Then we deal with what comes. A physical mechanic doesn't guarantee a clean EJ either.

[Mr Umpire]

 

 

 

True but what would you have done if he didn't turn around?  The video could have been turned around to say "You did nothing of the sort and the video proves it".   Then, you would have to go to his dugout or give the signal while he is "just sitting there" and now you look the aggressor by listening in on his dugout.

I don't agree with this part. The umpire doesn't have to go to the DO and look the aggressor. He can just refuse to restart the game until the EJ'd coach is gone. Sooner or later, he goes or someone (other than the umpire) makes a bigger ass of themselves. Oh, yeah, it could turn ugly, maybe worse case is that he suspends the game, sits in the change room, waits  and resumes the game when coach is gone.

 

I have used the quiet ejection and the emphatic one. Every sitch is a HTBT case. YMMV

 

Anything which is done with a "considerable" amount of time in between when they were talking at the plate and him going to the dugout to sit down will not look good for the umpire.  Even if he stands at the plate quietly and waits, he will look like he is instigating something with the coach.  You can go to his dugout to continue to "keep it quiet" or you can stand at the plate for all to see, your choice.  But, it won't look good if the events do not happen like the OP did.

 

Then we deal with what comes. A physical mechanic doesn't guarantee a clean EJ either.

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  the mother of all EJs.