Choice or not?

[Umpire in Chief]

Seriously though, it has been a great, civil and well thought out discussion and made me think even more.

My thoughts exactly. I believe elsewhere this may have boiled down to an insult fest, but I believe anybody who reads this thread will be able to take a lot away from it.

[JohnnySpot]

Once again this site proves its dominance and civility with thoughtful answers....TT , JM very nice debate

by the way...I'm with TT...and, in the name of full disclosure, an Evan's grad

[UmpTTS43]

Okay. After more research and asking questions to those that know more than I, this is what I believe to be the correct interpretation and how I would enforce it.

Original Situation:

R2 and R3. 1 out, 1-2 count. The catcher interferes with the batter's swing as he hits a deep fly ball to right field that is caught. The right fielder attempts to throw out R3 but throws the ball out of play. The manager of the hitting team decides he wants the option of the result of the play. After the ball is put back in play, the defense appeals that R3 left third early. The umpire sustains the appeal. The manager of the team at bat now wants the catcher's interference enforced.

Once the ball is throw out of play, I would award R3 and R2 home.

Pro mechanics say to enforce CI penalty and put runners back on base. If OM elects to take the play, remove runners, re-call BR out, and "score those runs." Appeal is upheld. By accepting the result of the play, the CI penalty is nullified.

Amateur ball. In this situation, before enforcing the CI, I would ask OM what he wants, play or penalty. This way, there is no question as to whether or not runners retouched because I didn't put them back on base. Appeal upheld.

My new understanding of this interpretation is that whether you enforce the penalty or not, the two seperate rulings (play/penalty) are totally independent of one another. One cannot have any bearing on another, as in retouches of bases. If the CI penalty is enforced prior to a choice, where a run scores, and the play is accepted, the runners are simply removed from the bases and any running/touching/correcting of the bases due to the penalty, is not recognized.

My new mechanics for CI are: if a run/runs score, give OM choice before enforcing the penalty. if no run scores, enforce the penalty then offer choice.

Hopefully y'all can understand the words that are coming out of my fingers.

p.s. Once the OM makes his choice, he cannot change his mind due to the result of additional outs being called.

[PeteBooth]

R2 and R3. 1 out, 1-2 count. The catcher interferes with the batter's swing as he hits a deep fly ball to right field that is caught. The right fielder attempts to throw out R3 but throws the ball out of play. The manager of the hitting team decides he wants the option of the result of the play. After the ball is put back in play, the defense appeals that R3 left third early. The umpire sustains the appeal. The manager of the team at bat now wants the catcher's interference enforced.

This is a question from another board. I know my answer but am interested in other's thoughts.

I know am late "to the party" but here is what I would do.

The catcher interferes with the batter's swing as he hits a deep fly ball to right field that is caught.

As PU I would signal that's CI or CO for FED so that everybody knows what 'the deal is" and allow play to continue.

Something which no one has yet mentioned.

REALITY: From my experience, whenever an umpire "yells something" like "that's a Balk", That's OBS, Interference" etc. all players stop, so in the REAL WORLD, the Umpire would simply impose the CI or CO penalty becasue everyone stopped, but that's not what Michael asked.

The right fielder attempts to throw out R3 but throws the ball out of play.

The proper mechanic is:

1. TIME.

2. You meaning R3 / R2 Home

R3 now has time to correct his base running mistake. The player and coach should know that R3 left early.

The reason I give the awards before the CI or CO penalty is because the throw into DBT occured during continuous action and therefore, needs to be dealt with first.

After R2/R3 score I now deal with the CI or CO penalty.

Since this is amateur baseball this is what I would do.

Go to the OM and say:

1. Skip do you want the play or the penalty

2. Skip: he will tell me what he wants to do.

3. I will then inform the official scorer and DM what the OM wanted.

Ok we are now ready to play.

BE CAREFUL for FED.

In FED, the DM can initiate a dead ball appeal, so the DM in a FED game better make CERTAIN the OM made his choice BEFORE he initates any sort of appeal otherwise the OM would simplay say - Enforce the penalty if the DM "gave up his hand" to early.

If the Defense appeals and upon accepting his award R3 did NOT correct his base-running mistake the appeal is honored.

The OM manager DOES NOT get to make ANOTHER choice. He already MADE his choice.

Pete Booth

[mazzamouth]

Wow how did i miss out on this 6 page long discussion?... this is a awesome play...LOL But i have to agree with Jm ruling as it seems like he at the end of reading all of this had the best answer.:smachhead: