MLB Ejections 137, 138: Phil Cuzzi, Tom Hallion (2, 4)

[UMP45]

Can i ask one serious question?  Despite all the above you chose to throw my way.  Are we NEVER allowed to suggest a way an MLB umpire should be disciplined?  Are we not allowed to have opinions and must always say the MLB umpire is the best so he just has no recourse to atone?

Sure. As soon as umpires can be correct 30% of the time and still keep there job!

[dumbdumb]

 

Can i ask one serious question?  Despite all the above you chose to throw my way.  Are we NEVER allowed to suggest a way an MLB umpire should be disciplined?  Are we not allowed to have opinions and must always say the MLB umpire is the best so he just has no recourse to atone?

Sure. As soon as umpires can be correct 30% of the time and still keep there job!

 

I believe you meant to go somewhat lower on that percentage UMP45. We can't even fill a 25 man regular season roster (only 21 qualify right now and only 10 that have played 150 or more games) with that high a percentage.

[UMP45]

 

 

Can i ask one serious question?  Despite all the above you chose to throw my way.  Are we NEVER allowed to suggest a way an MLB umpire should be disciplined?  Are we not allowed to have opinions and must always say the MLB umpire is the best so he just has no recourse to atone?

Sure. As soon as umpires can be correct 30% of the time and still keep there job!

 

I believe you meant to go somewhat lower on that percentage UMP45. We can't even fill a 25 man regular season roster (only 21 qualify right now and only 10 that have played 150 or more games) with that high a percentage.

 

What I was trying to say was is a player can fail 70% of the time and still make it to the Hall.

[mstaylor]

Can i ask one serious question?  Despite all the above you chose to throw my way.  Are we NEVER allowed to suggest a way an MLB umpire should be disciplined?  Are we not allowed to have opinions and must always say the MLB umpire is the best so he just has no recourse to atone?

MLB does suspend umpires for making serious mechanical or ruling errors, ask Culbreth and a couple of others. Suggesting that an umpire be suspended for a judgment call is flat wrong. This was a check swing, a nothing call, you thought no swing, he had intent so he called a swing. If he had thought no then he could have asked. I have absolutely no problem with him making that call himself. Even if you think he completely screwed the call, it will not and should not rise to the level of suspension. 

A lot of the suspensions and sanctions in other sports and levels are wrong and undermines the crews as a whole. There are reasons to suspend or fine an official but it should be the exception not the rule. 

[dumbdumb]

Can i ask one serious question?  Despite all the above you chose to throw my way.  Are we NEVER allowed to suggest a way an MLB umpire should be disciplined?  Are we not allowed to have opinions and must always say the MLB umpire is the best so he just has no recourse to atone?

From your own admission, you yourself are a Professional umpire of amateur players. Why do you want MLB umpires called out? There is an undercurrent here that you are not telling us, like you were a minor league player that did not make it to the majors because of the umpires, and your life's ambition is to call them out on every single miss that the camera can prove. The more they miss, the nastier the comment. Post #2 is not anything like a fellow official of any sport would say about any other official ever, in a public forum. That comment was below the belt from one umpire to another, or to any official in any other sport. It was total uncalled for and showed the shear and utmost contempt, hatred and animosity towards the MLB umpires and that umpire specifically.

 

Now, in another post, you mentioned you told the supervisor to show a call you missed, which I admired, but it was behind closed doors and only in front of your pears. Not once did you mention coming forth and sending the film to those 2 coaches involved in that game so they could call you out, even the coach that gained an advantage, or send the film to your State Governing body for possible fines, penalties and corrective action. Never once did you mention that you personally have made a horrible miss. You admitted to a miss, even one that could be determined by a video, but never a horrible, horrendous miss. You never once have mentioned calling out the Professional umpires working amateur players and how they should be tossed and called out for a judgment like in post 2, only the MLB guys.

 

If you had started the post by mentioning your own faults and examples of your horrendous calls and all of your peers in the room with you and their horrendous calls and then displayed them on this site then we would be much more in line with your thoughts on this subject.

 

Big deal that MLB is not hanging the MLB guys out to dry as much as the other sports. Maybe the other sports should be a little more discretionary and just handle things behind closed doors. The players are not called out for the misses they make the next day by the league office. Everyone can tell the errors just by watching the game, both the players and the umpires. No need for the League office to call anybody out.

 

Just what is it with the contempt for the MLB guys but not the other Professional umpires? What is it with wanting to call this group out, but not every other group out their. Mentioning that if the League called them out might make others think they are not so arrogant, but it really sounds like you think they arrogant, and it even sounds like you might have met some of them personally (just how it sounds from the posts). I wish I could be in the area where you get to meet them to have an opinion that they are so arrogant so that I could form my own opinion. I would probably be so star struck it would get right by me. Once again, it sounds like something that goes back to an incident that happened in the past. Were you the pro player and had grievance with umpires, which kept you from MLB? Was it going to the pro umpire school and not being picked by the pro instructors and kept you from MLB? Was it being a pro coach and and an altercation with the pro umpires that kept you from MLB? Were you or maybe a good friend or family memeber being watched at a clinic with pro umpires and the pro umpire told the D1 supervisor you weren't good enough for that level? Something just doesn't add up, and it would be very informative to hear what happened.

 

Were you out publicly with the MLB umpires and they would not get you tickets to a game or pick up the tab for the meal, or did they insult someone in the group you were with?

 

Anybody can most certainly have an opinion on a call and bring it up here, but why as an umpire yourself, would you want to be so hateful with the comments? Why is the passion for the game so vindictive towards the MLB umpires.

 

I am totally sorry for using the word "you" and I am trying to just ask questions that just don't match up with the tone of the post's, but that is just IMHO how it sounds to me. Once again, I commend you for going ahead at that local meeting and letting them see a mistake you made in front of your peers. I also apologize for being so way off base probably, but this is just how it sounds. Just some underlying current that doesn't make sense.

Help me, I am too dumbdumb to figure it all out.

[Minnz]

Fair enough dumbdumb.  Nothing of what you say is even close to why.  I have no beef with an umpire, no oh I was so close but got shot down etc.  That is way off and not even close.  

 

You also say I did not say anything to the coaches etc.  How do you know that?  I have admitted to a coach before if I missed a call.  Told a catcher hey that's on me.  I have no problem being held accountable or if I know how bad I missed it, telling a coach at the appropriate time he's right, my bad.

 

For may years MLB Umpires have been looked at as arrogant and egotistical etc.  Much of that funnels down to how coaches few umpires who work amateur level games be it NCAA, JuCo,, High School or LL.

 

I have liked when leagues hold their referees accountable to the public view.  It shows the human side as well and shows the leagues know the make mistakes. There is nothing wrong with that, especially if it leads to a potential change in score of a game or an ejection that a coach or player is fined for and should not be.  I don't think publicly having admission an official is wrong by the league means they are not protecting them.I think if MLB would be more open on when they biff it, there would be a perception change of the arrogance the MLB umpires supposedly have in public view.  Sometimes the humble pie will be better PR and help in the long run.  We all know the MLB has the longest tenure of all major sports for their top guys and often the last name gets you moved up quicker.  

 

The sports business as a whole is about nepotism and who you know.  I have no problem with that as many business are like that.  I am just saying when compared to other sports, I feel baseball does a disservice for not pointing out the egregious calls that lead to game scoring issues and ejections. 98% of the time the guys in black or blue are right.  When they are badly wrong it should be noticed.

 

You say players don't have the same thing?  I really don't think the player and umpires are the same.  But I will say sure as hell players get called out by their employer when they mess up.  A player may get benched the next day for an error or not running out a ground ball.  If you suck you get paid less next time their contract comes up.  If you can't get the guy out you lose your starting rotation spot.  Not to mention the media will talk, write, speak about it etc.

 

You and others have really took my comments so wrong to call them hateful.  I am not hateful, I just feel when you cause a major issue at your job that is a public job you should be called out.  No hate there just want them to be held accountable like anyone else.

 

Once again I am talking about accountability.  That is not hate in any way.  For some reason I guess I don't understand why because I am an umpire means I have to always stick up for another umpire on a message board when it is wrong what he did.

[mstaylor]

I don't believe most MLB umpires are arrogant, they are damn good, rarely wrong but are in control of most situations. Do they mess up, sure, but most of the time it is the result of the players screwing up. There are times where they get out of position or a player steps in the way and they mess an easy call. That   does not rise to the level of public sanctions. They already get daily film of their games, as well as evals. If they kick a rule, that does lead to sanctions. 

Football is different. There you have seven guys that constantly get together on penalties and enforcement, plus they have IR. They kick one and it can have much more impact on the game. They also get game film and evals but they then have a week to go over it. 

Basketball, who knows and who cares. 

[Larry in TN]

Basketball, who knows and who cares. 

 

I'm confused by how you included basketball in a conversation about sports?  

[dumbdumb]

Fair enough dumbdumb.  Nothing of what you say is even close to why.  I have no beef with an umpire, no oh I was so close but got shot down etc.  That is way off and not even close.  

 

You also say I did not say anything to the coaches etc.  How do you know that?  I have admitted to a coach before if I missed a call.  Told a catcher hey that's on me.  I have no problem being held accountable or if I know how bad I missed it, telling a coach at the appropriate time he's right, my bad.

 

For may years MLB Umpires have been looked at as arrogant and egotistical etc.  Much of that funnels down to how coaches few umpires who work amateur level games be it NCAA, JuCo,, High School or LL.

 

I have liked when leagues hold their referees accountable to the public view.  It shows the human side as well and shows the leagues know the make mistakes. There is nothing wrong with that, especially if it leads to a potential change in score of a game or an ejection that a coach or player is fined for and should not be.  I don't think publicly having admission an official is wrong by the league means they are not protecting them.I think if MLB would be more open on when they biff it, there would be a perception change of the arrogance the MLB umpires supposedly have in public view.  Sometimes the humble pie will be better PR and help in the long run.  We all know the MLB has the longest tenure of all major sports for their top guys and often the last name gets you moved up quicker.  

 

The sports business as a whole is about nepotism and who you know.  I have no problem with that as many business are like that.  I am just saying when compared to other sports, I feel baseball does a disservice for not pointing out the egregious calls that lead to game scoring issues and ejections. 98% of the time the guys in black or blue are right.  When they are badly wrong it should be noticed.

 

You say players don't have the same thing?  I really don't think the player and umpires are the same.  But I will say sure as hell players get called out by their employer when they mess up.  A player may get benched the next day for an error or not running out a ground ball.  If you suck you get paid less next time their contract comes up.  If you can't get the guy out you lose your starting rotation spot.  Not to mention the media will talk, write, speak about it etc.

 

You and others have really took my comments so wrong to call them hateful.  I am not hateful, I just feel when you cause a major issue at your job that is a public job you should be called out.  No hate there just want them to be held accountable like anyone else.

 

Once again I am talking about accountability.  That is not hate in any way.  For some reason I guess I don't understand why because I am an umpire means I have to always stick up for another umpire on a message board when it is wrong what he did.

Come on anytime and say that IMHO this call was missed. Then state with your umpiring background how this miss might be prevented (without always trying to get some dig in like "there is nothing you can do about a crappy umpire" and no I did not say that line was ever used but just trying to get a point across). Let us know what you know about how to prevent this error that just occurred. But, don't just show up for the plays that are missed. Come on for the correct calls and tell us about how the call was made correctly with positioning etc from your experiences.  If there is an ejection involved, just mention that you would not have ejected for this, just like in the ejection area of this forum and what you would have done with your umpiring experience. That is all there is to it.

I am sure there are team sites where one can go and pound and rag on the players or umpires about a play or call during that game.