Removing a helmet

[Concernedcitizen2]

This happened about 6 years ago when I was in high school.

 

I'm catching.  2nd game of a doubleheader at our field but for the 2nd game we're considered the visiting team.  Umpire rules before the 10th inning that it will be the last inning because of darkness. 

 

Tie game, bottom 10, the "home" team loads the bases with nobody out.   Pitcher gives up a long fly ball over the centerfielder's head.  He doesn't bother going after it and just starts jogging into the dugout.  Runner from third jogs in and right when he gets to the home plate dirt cut out about 15 feet short of the plate takes off his helmet and throws it in the air in celebration then steps on home.  

 

I don't think to say anything, my coach comes over to the umpire and calmly says, "shouldn't he be out for removing his helmet while the ball is in play?" I get excited and yell "he's out" after the umpire tells me to calm down and he talks it over with the BU and they rule the runner out for taking off his helmet, rule that all the other runners advance one base, so it is one out and bases loaded.  Our pitcher gets out of it and the game is ruled a suspended tie because of darkness to be continued at a later date if it makes a difference in the standings.  The "home" team coach was very angry yelling about how it was a dirty move by my coach to bring it to the umps attention.

 

About two months later at a legion tournament (I was the only kid on the legion team from my high school) I notice the same ump is working the bases.  After the game in the parking lot, I go up to him and ask him if he remembers the play.  He says he does, and that he went home and checked the rules after, it turns out he technically should have issued a warning to the runner and let the play stand so that the run counted and the game ended.  He then joked that the "home" team's coach is always a pain in the --- so it worked out okay.  We both laugh it over and talk about some other baseball stuff.  

 

So what do you guys think the ruling should be.  Player intentionally removes helmet during a live play but the defense has essentially conceded the game.  How would the placement of the runners happen? Was the ump right the first time, the second time (in the parking lot) or never?

[Rich Ives]

Not an out.

 

PENALTY: When an umpire observes anyone who is required to wear a batting
helmet deliberately remove his batting helmet while in live-ball territory and
the ball is live (non-adult ball/bat shaggers required to wear batting helmet in
live-ball area even if ball is dead), the umpire shall issue a warning to the
coach of the involved team, unless the ball becomes dead without being
touched by a fielder or, after being touched, goes directly to dead-ball area.
A subsequent violation of the rule shall result in ejection.

[BigUmp56]

The other team got hosed. Unless a crew is 100% certain that they KNOW what the penalty for a rules violation that might cause a team to lose a game should be, they need to consult the rule book before they make their ruling. I'm not an advocate of having a rule book on the field, but this is a situation that reinforces why we should have one in the car, tucked away in our equipment bag. It's better to take the time to look it up than it is to potentially rob a team of a victory because the crew was unprepared.

Tim

[Dannytheman]

Warning only!!!     Rich is dead on!!

[noumpere]

Heck even if the umpire wants to get an out on R3 the ball still is live so let R2 score the winning run.

[Concernedcitizen2]

Heck even if the umpire wants to get an out on R3 the ball still is live so let R2 score the winning run.

 

After R3 touched home without his helmet on, R2 touched 3rd and then just ran into a celebration in front of the plate with the rest of the team as they thought the game was over.  The out wasn't ruled until after the play was well over.

[UmpJM]

Removing your helmet while the ball is live is NEVER an out.

 

That's appalling umpiring.

 

WTF is "...rule(ing) before the 10th inning that it will be the last inning because of darkness..." ? It's either too dark to play, or it's not. When it becomes too dark, bang it.

 

The home team's coach is generally a PIA, so it's ok for the umpire to screw up a simple rule and screw his team out of a run? Atrocious.

 

JM

[noumpere]

 

Heck even if the umpire wants to get an out on R3 the ball still is live so let R2 score the winning run.

 

After R3 touched home without his helmet on, R2 touched 3rd and then just ran into a celebration in front of the plate with the rest of the team as they thought the game was over.  The out wasn't ruled until after the play was well over.

 

Im pretty sure R2 touched the plate during this celebration. lol.

[mw94]

I don't remember when it was changed  but , in Fed many years ago removing your Helmet during live ball action was an out!!!

[Concernedcitizen2]

This was in 2007, not sure if that's "many many years ago" haha 

 

If it makes a difference, this was Illinois, not sure if the IHSA has a rule separate from FED rules about helmets and player safety.

 

I thought that was actually fairly standard to rule before a full inning starts that it will be the last inning because darkness is coming.  Teams might approach the game differently knowing it's the last inning.  Calling it after the top of the inning seems like it could cause problems.

 

As far as the PIA thing goes, he didn't call it on the field because he was a PIA, he thought he had the right call, went home and checked the rulebook and saw he got it wrong, but in the friendly conversation we were having, joked that because the coach was a PIA, it was okay to boot it

[mstaylor]

I have doing Fed since about 1985 and it has not been an out in that time period. In a tied game situation no way you announce a last inning situation before the inning starts. 

[noumpere]

This was in 2007, not sure if that's "many many years ago" haha 

 

If it makes a difference, this was Illinois, not sure if the IHSA has a rule separate from FED rules about helmets and player safety.

 

I thought that was actually fairly standard to rule before a full inning starts that it will be the last inning because darkness is coming.  Teams might approach the game differently knowing it's the last inning.  Calling it after the top of the inning seems like it could cause problems.

 

As far as the PIA thing goes, he didn't call it on the field because he was a PIA, he thought he had the right call, went home and checked the rulebook and saw he got it wrong, but in the friendly conversation we were having, joked that because the coach was a PIA, it was okay to boot it

I don't think it was an out when I was in IL

 

And if you announce its the last inning what do you do if the inning is very quick and its still light or the inning runs long and it gets too dark?  The participants and coaches especially at the HS level and above can see its getting dark and they know you will be making a decision -- it wont be a surprise to them (even if they disagree with it)

[Concernedcitizen2]

Huh surprised at the lack of calling games early, I went to a school with a very weak program, so maybe we weren't getting the best umps around, but when I played Legion ball and we were in the area with arguably one of the better high school programs in the Midwest and I still remember them announcing before an inning that it would be the last because of darkness.  I also seem to remember when I played in college (Div III) having an umpire announce before an inning or half-inning that it would be the last of the game.

 

I guess if the inning goes very quick, it's probably too dark at that point to start an inning anyways.  If it goes too long you can call the game at that point because of darkness since it will be suspended anyways.  Probably better to start a suspended game with a fresh inning, but it could still be started mid-inning right?

[cyclonehokiece]

  Probably better to start a suspended game with a fresh inning, but it could still be started mid-inning right?

 

Correct, if suspended, you pick up where you left off, much like if you are in the middle of an inning and lightning is spotted and you are in a suspendable situation.