How much "adjusting" is acceptable

[umpire_scott]

Was doing a 13U tournament today and the pitchers were pretty green.  Of course everything they did that looked odd the opposing coach/fans wanted balks to be called.  So I wanted to throw out a couple of things I saw and get some feedback on them.

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#1 - This one I actually balked twice today.  The pitcher was bringing his hands together to come set, but right as his hands were stopping his leg was starting.  To me there was not a time when his hands and legs were still at the same time.  So I balked him for not coming set.  I was doing three-man but both my partners were very inexperienced and neither of them called the balks.  One of them came up to me afterwards and asked me what I saw and I told him.  He said that he was more just looking at the hands so he didn't see it.  On both balks the OC thanked me rather loudly (he must have been seeing the same thing I was).  The DC questioned the first one, but not the second one.  I know that there is not a definitive amount of time to discern what is acceptable for coming set.  The ones where they just blow right through it and the hands never stop is pretty easy to see. But is there any cues you guys use for the situation I'm describing?

 

#2 - The pitcher would come to the rubber with the ball in his glove hand, then he would switch it to his throwing hand while in contact with the rubber.  One fan for the other team kept saying "he can't do that it's a balk".  I was letting it go as a simple adjustment that he was making.  It was always within a few seconds of coming to the rubber and it was obviously prior to him coming set.

 

#3 - I did have the situation again where the kid was coming to the rubber already set.  I simply told him he needed to engage the pitching plate with his hands apart and he did from that point forward, so no issues there.

 

#4 - Had two different pitchers that had a lot of body movement when coming set.  Rather than just move their hands together they had a lot of upper body and hip action going on.  So there hands would come together set and then the rest of the movement would continue for a split second, and then they would pitch.  The other coach was arguing that the additional body movement meant he was not set yet, and then when he pitched immediately afterwards he essentially had never come fully set.  I thought it was a little nitpicky, especially for this level of 13U play and so I told the coach as long as his hands and legs came set I was allowing it.  I could see the coaches point though.  It was one that I was not sure on and so I did not want to balk it. 

[blue23ll]

How did you distinguish between #1 and #4? In #1 was the leg movement never stopping?

[mstaylor]

Balk in one, four is very borderline,HTBT. Two is acceptable adjustment, three you handled.

Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2

[umpire_scott]

How did you distinguish between #1 and #4? In #1 was the leg movement never stopping?

 

In #1 his leg movement was clearly the beginning of his motion to pitch.  In #4 the movement was more shoulders and hips.  It's hard to explain but I've seen it before.  He would bring his hands together and then the rest of the body movements would be like the final stages of his coming fully set.  So it could be argued that until the weird minor gyrations ceased he was not fully set.  But his hands never moved up or down during this additional body movement.  I guess it could be compared to a pitcher that brings his hands together and then takes a deep breath and thus his shoulders move up and down and then he pitches without every being perfectly still. 

[BigUmp56]

It sounds to me like this forum is starting to pay divedends for you, Grasshopper. You handled all four situations just fine.

Tim.

[treydawgmt]

#4 easily sounds like it could be a balk.  Or not.  HTBT.  ALL of his body must stop once and only once.  But I agree you handled them all well.

 

I will say, however, just because the OC coach "thanked you" he "must have been seeing the same thing I was" is fairly flawed logic.  You just gave him free bases, of course he saw the same thing!  Wasn't he the same one calling for a balk on things you said weren't balks?

[blue23ll]

#4 easily sounds like it could be a balk.  Or not.  HTBT.  ALL of his body must stop once and only once.  But I agree you handled them all well.

 

I will say, however, just because the OC coach "thanked you" he "must have been seeing the same thing I was" is fairly flawed logic.  You just gave him free bases, of course he saw the same thing!  Wasn't he the same one calling for a balk on things you said weren't balks?

I agree with this. Never let anything a coach says go to your head, or get into your head. Don't give too much credence to criticism or get too much confidence from compliments, they are false and biased opinions based on the coaches feelings during competition. I would get much more value from the opinions of your peers.

[noumpere]

 

 

#2 - The pitcher would come to the rubber with the ball in his glove hand, then he would switch it to his throwing hand while in contact with the rubber.  One fan for the other team kept saying "he can't do that it's a balk".  I was letting it go as a simple adjustment that he was making.  It was always within a few seconds of coming to the rubber and it was obviously prior to him coming set.

 

 

As a general statement the pitching restrictions don't really start until the pitcher gets comfortable on the rubber.  So if that's what was happening (and it sounds like it) then you are right.  But if its after that then its a balk.  Generally a good guideline is when he begins to look in for the sign.

[Chris Hickman]

Adjusting?? We are talking Baseball right ?

[Jocko]

#2 - The pitcher would come to the rubber with the ball in his glove hand, then he would switch it to his throwing hand while in contact with the rubber.  One fan for the other team kept saying "he can't do that it's a balk".  I was letting it go as a simple adjustment that he was making.  It was always within a few seconds of coming to the rubber and it was obviously prior to him coming set.

As a general statement the pitching restrictions don't really start until the pitcher gets comfortable on the rubber.  So if that's what was happening (and it sounds like it) then you are right.  But if its after that then its a balk.  Generally a good guideline is when he begins to look in for the sign.Let me preface...I don't categorically disagree. But I must point out the wording. The pitching rules begin when the pitcher engages the rubber. Getting comfortable is your wording, not rule book wording. I KNOW YOU SAID 'General statement' but there are some lesser experienced guys here and they need to know the proper wording.

[mstaylor]

Yes, the pitching rules start when he gets on the rubber but we do allow a certain amount of adjustment as they get on. Adjusting the ball for example. <br /><br />Sent from my C771 using Tapatalk 2<br /><br />

[noumpere]

 

 

#2 - The pitcher would come to the rubber with the ball in his glove hand, then he would switch it to his throwing hand while in contact with the rubber.  One fan for the other team kept saying "he can't do that it's a balk".  I was letting it go as a simple adjustment that he was making.  It was always within a few seconds of coming to the rubber and it was obviously prior to him coming set.

As a general statement the pitching restrictions don't really start until the pitcher gets comfortable on the rubber.  So if that's what was happening (and it sounds like it) then you are right.  But if its after that then its a balk.  Generally a good guideline is when he begins to look in for the sign. Let me preface...I don't categorically disagree. But I must point out the wording. The pitching rules begin when the pitcher engages the rubber. Getting comfortable is your wording, not rule book wording. I KNOW YOU SAID 'General statement' but there are some lesser experienced guys here and they need to know the proper wording.

 

I agree that the new guys (and for that matter the old guys) need to know the rule book wording.  They also need to know how to interpret it.

 

take for example the pitcher who (with runners on) stands just to the side of the rubber, then puts his pivot foot on the rubber (by rule the restrictions begin), then steps with the free foot to put it between the rubber and the plate to take the sign.  Immediate balk for stepping and not throwing / pitching..  lol.

[JaxRolo]

Watch the Jim Evans video. He says a moment of adjusting is allowed.