Balk, or legal pick off move?

[JHSump]

Saw this in a game yesterday (I was in the "press box").

 

OBR-based game. RHP. R1. Pitcher comes set, and then lifts his left foot, bending his leg and bringing his knee up as if he's about to deliver a pitch.  But, he turns and lands his left foot on a direct line to 1B, and throws to 1B in an attempt to pick off R1.

 

Additional information: the pitcher never let his left foot pass behind the back edge of the rubber.

 

Balk, or legal pick off move?  Can you cite a casebook, or interpretation?

[KLAH316]

BALK!

[maven]

Balk, and a pretty rudimentary one. He failed to step directly to 1B. 8.05(c )

[JHSump]

But, he actually stepped directly to first --- he turned and stepped in the direction of 1B, then he threw to 1B.

[maven]

Not what you said: you said he lifted his knee first, as if to pitch. Can't do that, as it is NOT stepping to 1B.

[JHSump]

Ah! Ok!  I thought it was a balk.  (During the game my reaction on seeing this was "that's a balk!"  But the umpires working the game did not call it.  And some others weren't sure.  So I was questioning myself.)

 

Thanks for confirming my thinking, @maven   When you said "he lifted his knee first, as if to pitch" it clicked --- of course, I've seen this discussed here on U-E many times (the knee pop).  This pitcher's move to first was just a much slower, more elaborate "knee pop."

 

In this case (maybe even all knee pops?) the relevant rule is the following, right?

 

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

[blue23ll]

I am having trouble picturing what 'lifting his knee' actually means. Can you lift a knee and not lift the foot that's attached to it? Lifting your leg and foot does not automatically commit the pitcher to the plate, unless the foot crosses back and breaks the plane of the rubber. Absent further information on this situation, I am withholding a call.

[JHSump]

In this case (the game the other day), the pitcher lifted his free foot to quite a height above the ground.  He had to break his knee to do so.  It looked just like he was about to deliver a pitch, but he didn't carry the delivery through.  Instead, he turned, landed his free foot on a line to 1B and threw to F3.

And, now I found

http://umpire-empire.com/index.php/topic/558-balks/page-5

 

Take a look, specifically, at post #96 (by MO-Ump) and post #97 (by mstaylor).  What I saw the other day was the pitcher definitely lifting his free foot (and knee) very high, then turning and throwing to 1B.  Balk, even in the discussion on that thread.  But a small left foot lift?  Seems like there are differing, perhaps arguably valid opinions?

[UMP45]

RHP. For him to attempt this pick off move it would make his free foot moving to the plate that is associated with delivering to the plate. Someone might say but a LHP raises his free foot and can attempt a pick off. That's right because his free foot is not moving towards the plate.

[blue23ll]

RHP. For him to attempt this pick off move it would make his free foot moving to the plate that is associated with delivering to the plate. Someone might say but a LHP raises his free foot and can attempt a pick off. That's right because his free foot is not moving towards the plate.

How does lifting a knee for a RHP commit him to the plate?

[JHSump]

See attached pic.  This is pretty much what the pitcher looked like, just before he turned and threw to F3 at 1B.  Until reaching this point he looked just like he was going to deliver a pitch to the plate.

 

[maven]

8.05 If there is a runner, or runners, it is a balk when—

(a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

 

@JHSump, (a) is not the right provision to apply: as @UMP45 points out, a LHP may lift lift his leg and then continue in a step to 1B (Pettitte has made a name for himself with his quasi-legal move that includes this leg lift).

 

The applicable provision, as I mentioned, is 8.05 (c ): failure to step directly to 1B. This catches the leg lift only for a RHP, and explains why RHP use jump turns and jab steps.

[blue23ll]

That pitcher has not committed to the plate, at this point. His free foot has not crossed the plane of the rubber, which per rule commits him to pitch the ball. He may turn and throw to first provided he steps toward first.

[maven]

That pitcher has not committed to the plate, at this point. His free foot has not crossed the plane of the rubber, which per rule commits him to pitch the ball. He may turn and throw to first provided he steps toward first.

@blue23ll, you're also trying to apply 8.05(a): but it's not a balk because he's committed to pitch, it's a balk because he failed to step directly to the base. He violated 8.05(c ).

 

Notice the COMMENT about swinging the foot past the back edge of the rubber appears in (a), not (c ). They are different requirements.

[blue23ll]

 

That pitcher has not committed to the plate, at this point. His free foot has not crossed the plane of the rubber, which per rule commits him to pitch the ball. He may turn and throw to first provided he steps toward first.

@blue23ll, you're also trying to apply 8.05(a): but it's not a balk because he's committed to pitch, it's a balk because he failed to step directly to the base. He violated 8.05(c ).

 

Notice the COMMENT about swinging the foot past the back edge of the rubber appears in (a), not (c ). They are different requirements.

 

Note my comment about, He may turn and throw to first provided he STEP TOWARDS FIRST. Are you assuming he is throwing to first from this position? If he can accomplish that, yes, I would reward him with a balk. Now, if he does turn and step directly towards first, you can't balk it.

[KLAH316]

That pitcher has not committed to the plate, at this point. His free foot has not crossed the plane of the rubber, which per rule commits him to pitch the ball. He may turn and throw to first provided he steps toward first.

No he can not..... From the position in the picture, he is already committed to the plate.

[JHSump]

Gotta run to the tournament!  I will check back to see if there are any further comments...It could get interesting if I get a game with this pitcher and call a balk --- which I am inclined to do.

[blue23ll]

 

That pitcher has not committed to the plate, at this point. His free foot has not crossed the plane of the rubber, which per rule commits him to pitch the ball. He may turn and throw to first provided he steps toward first.

No he can not..... From the position in the picture, he is already committed to the plate.

 

What in this picture tells you that he has committed to the plate?

[BigUmp56]

He's actually commited to either the plate or third base in the picture. He cannot lift his knee to balance and turn to throw to first legally. Remember that one of the basic premises for balks is that a pitcher is not allowed to start a movement in one directin and then stop and do something different. This is legal for a LHP to come to balance because his first move with his knee was toward first. Maven is right here in that he didn't step directly toward first. He first buckled his knee toward third.

Tim.

[blue23ll]

So you are saying because his knee is bent, bringing his foot up and not remaining down, that he committed to the plate? Has he started moving toward the plate? If he had, then he can't go to first. I don't see a lot of this type of move to first, which is why I am questioning your thoughts of balking this. Is this a youth ball thing?

[carolinablue]

If I understand this right, the pitcher in the picture has not commited anywhere. He could step to third and be ok, it would be a direct step but it would be impossible for him to step towards first without his front foot moving towards home at least a little and thus commiting a balk. 

[SoCal Lurker]

So you are saying because his knee is bent, bringing his foot up and not remaining down, that he committed to the plate? Has he started moving toward the plate? If he had, then he can't go to first. I don't see a lot of this type of move to first, which is why I am questioning your thoughts of balking this. Is this a youth ball thing?

 

Don't you think that if this move was legal you would see it -- in your games and in MLB?

[BigUmp56]

It's not the bending of the knee alone that has him balking. It's darned near impossible for a RHP to ever go to first without bending the knee when he lifts his free foot. It's the hesitation in hanging the knee that causes the balk. It's called at all levels. In fact, I've seen one called in an MLB game this season. I can't for the life of me remember which game it was or I would find a clip for you.

Tim.

[blue23ll]

Now it's getting clearer for me. The picture is deceiving, as you can't tell what he is doing from it. If he is hanging the knee then yes, that's a balk. The knee can hang momentarily, but the movement must be continuous and uninterrupted. I balk a lefty for that knee hang if it is non-continuous as well.

[KLAH316]

Once a RHP lifts the front foot:

he can throw to 3B if occupied

he can spin to 2B if occupied

he must pitch. 

he can NEVER spin to 1B