"TOO PROFESSIONAL".....anyone???

[Quickstrike33]

hey everybody, just wanted to know if anyone else runs into this....a partner or another umpire you may run across that takes the umpire job waaaay tooo serious....almost like having a major league ump umpiring a babe ruth league game...i've run into it more than i care to think about, and for the most part just have to roll my eyes and bite my lip...i'm the type of umpire that likes to have fun on the field and go with the flow of the game. i know there is a fine line sometimes in doing high school ball, as the higher up you go the coaches have a little more at stake, with money, and their jobs...wins/losses, but i just can't help believe trying to have fun and share a laugh or two is a bad thing....i love to see the clips of DOUG HARVEY, former mlb umpire, with tobacco juice running out both sides of his mouth, in conversation with TOMMY LASORDA....seems todays umpires are almost a cookie cutter type, with the same build, same haircut, and same general attitude........at the high school level, i'm not out there to get rich, so while i do think we need to be professional in our looks, and the way we come across to coaches, players and fans, let's still have some fun....any opinions???:WTF

[Umpire in Chief]

I really don't think you can be too professional in any area of life, just as long as you're not a poser who is good on the show side, but has nothing to back it up.

[BrianC14]

I really don't think you can be too professional in any area of life, just as long as you're not a poser who is good on the show side, but has nothing to back it up.

Well said, Warren, very well said!

Mr. Campbell, there is a big difference between working a game in a professional manner and being an OOO. Perhaps you might provide some examples of what these "overly professional" partners have done to make you deride them?

Edited January 23, 2009 by BrianC14

[UmpJM]

campbell,

No, I don't believe I ever have had that experience - though I have had the converse.

I have seen officials who I thought were "overly officious", so maybe it's just a question of semantics.

Of course, personally, I like capitalization & punctuation, so maybe it's not.

JM

Edited January 23, 2009 by UmpJM
clarity

[BrianC14]

campbell,

No, I don't believe I ever have had that experience - though I have had the converse.

I have seen officials who I thought were "overly officious", so maybe it's just a question of semantics.

Of course, personally, I like capitalization & punctuation, so maybe it's not.

JM

:D

[Mike Walsh]

Being as professional as possible is fun.

Mike

[AllanA]

I think the wording "too Professional" isn't quite right. But I think I know what your talking about. Your partner is by the book, too uptight, and booger picking every thing he sees. I have had a few partners like this and I had to tell them to loosen up or I was gonna stick em in the arse with a pin.

These fellows are the ones that are trying to impress that they over do it.

I don't usually talk between innings but when I get someone of this nature I'll call them in and ask them to loosen up.

Allan

[Stan W.]

I would rather have a partner who was too professional (if you can ever be anything of that sort) than the "Everybodies buddy"..........

I'm not talking about a OOO who cant keep himself out of every nuance of the game, But at the HS level, which the OP is based on, I would much rather have a professional partner....

I enjoy the game, I enjoy my job in it and I enjoy conducting a professionally umpired game....

We have a guy in my chapter we call "the Mayor"........working a game with him is difficult...he is always hanging over the fences talking to fans...chatting up the base coaches........and in his words, "He is having fun"...........

I'll take the professional guy anyday.......I can loosen him up if need be........

Edited January 23, 2009 by Stan W.
clarity

[Quickstrike33]

there are a couple instances with umpires to which i'm refering to. the first is 2 or 3 guys in our group of high school officials that have gotten a taste of college ball. seems after working the higher level, they come back a step and whether they mean to or not, they seem to want to let everyone else know that they have been there and done that, so to speak....i think they say and do things with a "cocky" attitude, and may not even realize this....the other instance is someone who knows the rule book inside and out and has been around our association for quite a while. i might consider him to be "unapproachable". the so called "his way or the highway" mentality...i know coaches who hate to see him walk thru the fences to do their games. it may be because they know they won't be able to get by with anything or even question anything for that matter, but i think it's just because he has a reputation of being an "A-HOLE" in general........we also have a couple of the fence climbers who like to cut up with the fans and coaches, i think ther should be a happy medium, that's all.....:wow:

[Rags11]

I agree that I'd rather have a partner who needed to "loosen up," than be overly chummy with coaches, players & fans.

The only parents I'd talk to during a game are my own...Since they've never seen me work a game, that hasn't happened yet.

JM and the others are right. You can't be too professional. Generally, I think the guys who puff their chests the most, tend to know the least.

Quick example from last year: Here on LI, late in the school season, they're scrambling to get umpires to cover middle school games. So, I get a last minute call, and I'm paired with a 30+ year vet. I know this because he told me as soon as I pulled into the parking lot.

Incidentally, his base pants looked almost that old.

Anyway, I'm PU, and we have an IFF sitch. The ball's hit in no man's land, and falls. No call.

Defensive coach comes out to the plate, and asks me about it. Not confrontational, just coversational. I explain the no-call, citing the attempted play requiring more than "ordinary effort" on the part of the fielder. All is well.

30 year vet comes bounding in. "Coach, the ball wasn't readily accesible."

#1: I still haven't found that terminology in any rule book.

#2: If I wanted help, I'd have asked.

I have no problem with guys who work college & HS. Yes, some are arrogant. But what bothers me more is the Big Dog who thinks because he's been an umpire for XX years, he can't learn anything new or do anything different.

[BrianC14]

I agree that I'd rather have a partner who needed to "loosen up," than be overly chummy with coaches, players & fans.

The only parents I'd talk to during a game are my own...Since they've never seen me work a game, that hasn't happened yet.

JM and the others are right. You can't be too professional. Generally, I think the guys who puff their chests the most, tend to know the least.

Quick example from last year: Here on LI, late in the school season, they're scrambling to get umpires to cover middle school games. So, I get a last minute call, and I'm paired with a 30+ year vet. I know this because he told me as soon as I pulled into the parking lot.

Incidentally, his base pants looked almost that old.

Anyway, I'm PU, and we have an IFF sitch. The ball's hit in no man's land, and falls. No call.

Defensive coach comes out to the plate, and asks me about it. Not confrontational, just coversational. I explain the no-call, citing the attempted play requiring more than "ordinary effort" on the part of the fielder. All is well.

30 year vet comes bounding in. "Coach, the ball wasn't readily accesible."

#1: I still haven't found that terminology in any rule book.

#2: If I wanted help, I'd have asked.

I have no problem with guys who work college & HS. Yes, some are arrogant. But what bothers me more is the Big Dog who thinks because he's been an umpire for XX years, he can't learn anything new or do anything different.

ROFL

Hey wait a minute... is that guy's name 'Steve', by any chance?

I'm pretty sure I worked a double header with him last spring.

[mstaylor]

I have no patience for anyone at any level who thinks he doesn't need to read a rulebook or a mechanics manual. Even though I teach in my group doesn't mean I'm not on the internet, reading what I can and discussing baseball with other umpires. My Dad taught me when you have learned all you need to know about something, quit. My variation is you are either getting better or worse, nobody stays in one place.

[Rags11]

I have no patience for anyone at any level who thinks he doesn't need to read a rulebook or a mechanics manual. Even though I teach in my group doesn't mean I'm not on the internet, reading what I can and discussing baseball with other umpires. My Dad taught me when you have learned all you need to know about something, quit. My variation is you are either getting better or worse, nobody stays in one place.

Exactly! Unfortunately, not enough umpires have the same attitude. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse.

AR

[LMSANS]

There's a guy in my association started umpiring baseball in 1951. He started football and basketball in 1952...and he still is doing all three. He told me he served in WWII...do the math.

My first V game behind the plate, he's got the bases. As I walk over to his car, I look and see him sitting there reading the "Rules by Topic" book with a highlighter in his hand.

We had a thorough pre-game, led by me. He chimed in at appropriate times and then we walked down to the field. He covered his position as well as anybody and we had a pretty good game.

There was an appeal at 3B. He called the R3 out for leaving early (he didn't). The HC came out and questioned him on it. My partner came to me and asked what I had. I thought about pointing out it was my call but just told him what I had --The runner left after the catch. He reverses his call and heads back to his position. Yeah he took some heat from the other coach, but he knew he made a mistake and took the heat and we got on with the game.

That's a pro.

I'll work with him again.

Edited January 24, 2009 by LMSANS
add a sentence

[BrianC14]

I have no patience for anyone at any level who thinks he doesn't need to read a rulebook or a mechanics manual. Even though I teach in my group doesn't mean I'm not on the internet, reading what I can and discussing baseball with other umpires. My Dad taught me when you have learned all you need to know about something, quit. My variation is you are either getting better or worse, nobody stays in one place.

DING! DING! DING!

Well said, Mr. Taylor.

I can think of only one worse case: the guy who claims to have read the rulebook and/or mechanics manual, but once he's on the field, it's readily evident that he has not. :confused:

[Dragon29]

Concur - A lot of times, when a guy starts with, "I've been umpiring for XX years. . . " it means that's how long it's been since he went to a clinic.

I mean, he went once - how much more is there to know?

[mstaylor]

I cringe when I hear an umpire say that he has been doing this for however many years. It usually equates to I suck but IU've been doing it a long time and I'm going to impress you with it.

It drives me just as much when a coach says it. Either that or I pitched D1. I think OK and that means what?

I've been doing this a long time myself but I prefer to work and let them decide if I know what I'm doing.

[Majordave]

Exactly! Unfortunately, not enough umpires have the same attitude. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse.

AR

I use this as kind of a mantra for myself and the high school students I teach and the players I coach.

I am teaching balks at my HS association on 2/4. I have a PowerPoint, a handout, the Jim Evans Balk Video end of the DVD test portion and a short quiz lined up. Since I teach and used to be a training officer in the Army and a trial attorney I tend to try to cover all the bases more than once.

Last year I did the same training class and I presented with a slide up on a screen and then got the video test in before I was walked/talked over by my assigner who says "the best balk call is a no balk call". I was pissed.

Several guys have told me that it was the best training we have had in our association. I am going to preface my comments this year that I intend to finish as we have reformatted the meetings to give assigner time at the end and only the end for time saving purposes. He is a great guy and I get big games but for some reason if it is not about him he gets a little testy and vocal. Our new President has him roped in so far but our trainings have lasted no more than 5 to 7 minutes per meeting.

We had an incident during a district game in our region last year where two highly competitive teams with former college/pro player coaches for both. A very senior umpire in our association did not call a balk on one team's pitcher when apparently everyone in the park knew he balked and had been balking. (twitched his knee while set after the stretch with a runner on second) then delivered the pitch. The home/offensive team coach asked why that was not a balk. I know the coach and he can be abrasive but apparently was just asking and he got tossed by Senior umpire (now retired-big crybaby speech at or first meeting this year announcing his retirement from umpiring).

Local newspaper sportswriter gave umpires names in article about the game. Senior umpire followed tossed coach across diamond screaming back at him after ejection. Glad I wasn't involved. Got full report from fans in stands I know and assistant coach I know and home plate umpire friend of mine. Home plate umpire said it looked and sounded like coach of home/offensive just asked why it was not a balk without any demonstration or anything. "It looked to me like they were just talking then everything blew up." Senior umpire admitted that the coach he tossed only asked but that "I didn't like being questioned on my calls". This was a big seeding game for district tournament. Any team in this district is capable of going to and winning state in any given year. Four or five state championships by teams out of this district in the last 7 or 8 years.

It was a big fiasco all because of a "No balk is the best balk call".

Most of the teams in our region are very well coached. When I coached Legion ball with a former AAA pitcher we used to teach pitchers how to not get called for a balk or at least test the umpire limits, especially with lefty pitchers, knowing that most umpires hate to call balks. I know some of the better/more competitive coaches teach these things as well. Thus I am very attentive when I umpire. Balks are in the rules for a reason.

So, when you see one, call one. But you have to prepare and know the rules first and review them periodically during the season. Some teams are coached to see if you will call it and it is part of the game.

Thanks for reading another diatribe by the Major.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Majordave

[mstaylor]

You would love working with me Dave, I will call a balk when I see it.

I managed a 13/14 team last year with the asst GM of a local resturant/bar. One of the bartenders asked what was a balk. I gave him the very bare bones. He laughingly said," So it's a way for you to ruin a kid's game!"

[BrianC14]

...

It was a big fiasco all because of a "No balk is the best balk call".

Heck, I worked a Musial game last summer and my partner called 3 in one inning on the same pitcher.

"See a balk, call a balk."

It's guys like you 'senior umpire' pal that make me wonder "What other rules do you ignore ?"

:BD:

[dawg-man]

I myself like working with guys who are profesional in their appearance and the way they conduct themselves on the field. I also like working with guys that know when to smile and have a good time with a player especially LL and high school. The one that I do not like working with is the guy who looks for the knit picky things that will rile a coach up when there is no reason for it. I also do not like the lazy umpire and we see these guys way to much at all parks.

[Old Nr 24]

I agree that all umpires, no matter the level, need to be absolutely professional in dress, demeanor, knowledge, and technique. That for me is a given, and while I have worked with umpires I considered less than professional in one or more of these categories, if they work hard and are willing to learn I have no problem. After all, we are "professional amateurs," all of us.

It seems to me what we are talking about here (or in the beginning at least) are those guys who like to show off, to pose, to be over-officious, and in my opinion those are the men who give the job a bad name.

If you take the work seriously, be professional at all times, and do your job well, you can still enjoy the games, the players, the coaches, and the fans. You build your reputation through professionalism and hard work, and once you have that everyone relaxes. They know you, they know your work, they know where the invisible lines are, and the game and the job is then truly fun.

As for learning as you go, regardless of the level you work, I had a very wise umpire tell me early on in my "career" that we need to take something away from every partner we work with regardless of his experience level. We need to learn something from everyone, even if that is the devout promise that we will NEVER handle a situation like he did!