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TOT v TOP

jjskitours

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jjskitours

jjskitours

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R1 and R2. Batter hits bloop single. R1 advances and is at 2nd base. R2 delays before taking off for 3rd base. F4 chases the ball down in the outfield and throws out of play trying to retire R2 at 3rd base. BR was at 1st when F4 released the ball. Question- is this 1st play by an infielder and R1 placed at 3rd based on TOP or is F4 considered an outfielder and thus R1 scores based on TOT.

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Jocko
Jocko

I'd figure it like this... If he's in infielder for the IFF rule he's an infielder for this situation.

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Guest

Guest

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As written, TOP. R2 has not advanced one base prior to the ball being thrown (out of play) and therefore the base awards revert to TOP. Had he been at 3B and this was a back-door play, it would be TOT.

 

Result is R2 scored, R1 now on 3B, BR on 2B.

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

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Posted

So, ....dummy here coming in for clarification... :)

 

TOP, ....  first play by an infielder (without everyone advancing)

 

Outfield is always TOT, yes?  This was being discussed at SEMUC when someone asked and I was on the "field" at the time....

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johnnyg08

johnnyg08

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Posted

So, ....dummy here coming in for clarification... :)

 

TOP, ....  first play by an infielder (without everyone advancing)

 

Outfield is always TOT, yes?  This was being discussed at SEMUC when someone asked and I was on the "field" at the time....

 

 

Yes from MLBUM:

 

Screenshot2013-02-26at75532AM_zps4cdabb2

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

So, ....dummy here coming in for clarification... :)

 

TOP, ....  first play by an infielder (without everyone advancing)

 

Outfield is always TOT, yes?  This was being discussed at SEMUC when someone asked and I was on the "field" at the time....

 

 

Yes from MLBUM:

 

Screenshot2013-02-26at75532AM_zps4cdabb2

Making sure my memory isn't going too! :D

 

Thanks!

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jjskitours

jjskitours

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Does everyone agree that it is the fact that F4 made the throw that makes it TOP and not the fact that he was clearly positioned in the outfield when he made the throw which would be TOT if he was considered an outfielder?

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

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Does everyone agree that it is the fact that F4 made the throw that makes it TOP and not the fact that he was clearly positioned in the outfield when he made the throw which would be TOT if he was considered an outfielder?

I would tend to say an infielder is an infielder for the sake of this rule, but the "gurus" will chime in! :D

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Jocko

Jocko

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I'd figure it like this... If he's in infielder for the IFF rule he's an infielder for this situation.

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KyleUmp

KyleUmp

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R1 and R2. Batter hits bloop single. R1 advances and is at 2nd base. R2 delays before taking off for 3rd base. F4 chases the ball down in the outfield and throws out of play trying to retire R2 at 3rd base. BR was at 1st when F4 released the ball. Question- is this 1st play by an infielder and R1 placed at 3rd based on TOP or is F4 considered an outfielder and thus R1 scores based on TOT.

 

 

As written, TOP. R2 has not advanced one base prior to the ball being thrown (out of play) and therefore the base awards revert to TOP. Had he been at 3B and this was a back-door play, it would be TOT.

 

Result is R2 scored, R1 now on 3B, BR on 2B.

 

This is correct. Don't let where the ball is on the field muddy the waters. I am not sure how the FED rule is worded, but the NCAA version makes it clear that it is teh "first play by an infielder." It doesn't say anything about where the infield has to be, etc. If the infielder throws the ball then you've got two bases from time of the pitch, unless all runners, including the BR, have advanced at least one base at the point of the throw.

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

So, ....dummy here coming in for clarification... :)

 

TOP, ....  first play by an infielder (without everyone advancing)

 

Outfield is always TOT, yes?  This was being discussed at SEMUC when someone asked and I was on the "field" at the time....

 

 

Yes but the key point there is that you may not always be able to advance everyone 2 bases.

 

IE R1, blooper with R1 holding, BR gets to 1B as an outfielder picks the ball up and throws to 2B to try and shoot R1, but airmails it and it goes out of play. Even though you are going TOT and the batter is already at 1B, because R1 hasn't touched 2B when the ball is thrown, he is only entitled to 3B, meaning the furthest you can advance the BR is 2B.

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Thunderheads

Thunderheads

Posted
Posted

So, ....dummy here coming in for clarification... :)

 

TOP, ....  first play by an infielder (without everyone advancing)

 

Outfield is always TOT, yes?  This was being discussed at SEMUC when someone asked and I was on the "field" at the time....

 

 

Yes but the key point there is that you may not always be able to advance everyone 2 bases.

 

IE R1, blooper with R1 holding, BR gets to 1B as an outfielder picks the ball up and throws to 2B to try and shoot R1, but airmails it and it goes out of play. Even though you are going TOT and the batter is already at 1B, because R1 hasn't touched 2B when the ball is thrown, he is only entitled to 3B, meaning the furthest you can advance the BR is 2B.

Thanks Chris!

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