FED Rule 5.1.1 (c)

[dddunn3d]

I have a problem with the way this rule is written. I understand the practical application but,

RULE 5 - Dead Ball - Suspension of Play

Section 1 - Dead Ball

ART 1 ...Ball becomes dead immediately when:

(c ) the batter enters the batter's box with an illegal bat;

If the above is true, how can F1 pitch a dead ball?

I think that NFHS should re-structure the grammar of this rule.

[Umpire in Chief]

Welcome dddunn3d!

Are you referring to how (B) refers to illegally batting the ball then (c ) refers to entering the box?

If so my interpretation would be that we as umpires don't always catch illegal bats as they enter the box -- See George Brett

So if we see it and they enter the box we kill the ball and address the situation.

If we find out after a batted ball, well we do our best to unring the bell.

[dddunn3d]

Yes, I understand the practical applications of the rule.

However, the way the rule is written (the ball becomes dead immediately when...) implies that no action is necessary on the umpires' part.

The ball is dead; therefore any action subsequent is null and void.

The rule should be re-written to require an appeal by the defense similar to a missed based, unless of course an umpire notices that the bat is indeed illegal.

Otherwise, theoretically speaking, the defense could bring the illegal bat to the attention of the umpire two or three batters later. Since there is no provision that requires a proper appeal, the umpire may be compelled to rule that the batter that used the illegal bat is out; the game would then have to be re-set to that point.

[Astrosdawg07]

My chapters interp is that if BR 1 gets on and then B2 steps in the box with the same illegal bat and it is discovered; both are called out.

[dddunn3d]

My point is more along the lines of: 0 outs, R2, B3 hits a single with an unnoticed illegal bat scoring R2. B4 then hits a HR.

The way the current rule is worded implies to me that the defense can bring B3's usage of the illegal bat to the umpire's attention after all of the above transpires. The umpire would then have no choice but to declare B3 out for entering the batter's box with an illegal bat. And since the rule says that the ball became dead immediately when the batter entered the box with the illegal bat (not when the infraction was actually noticed), no subsequent action can be valid.

[Astrosdawg07]

My understanding is that once B4 was pitched to, B3 is valid.

[JaxRolo]

I have a problem with the way this rule is written. I understand the practical application but,

RULE 5 - Dead Ball - Suspension of Play

Section 1 - Dead Ball

ART 1 ...Ball becomes dead immediately when:

(c ) the batter enters the batter's box with an illegal bat;

If the above is true, how can F1 pitch a dead ball?

I think that NFHS should re-structure the grammar of this rule.

I can see what yo are saying by the way it was worded. Somebody in my association told not to long ago that sometimes I take read to much into a rule and even though it might me worded in certain way. I also said to just use common sense and be an Umpire and do the right thing.

I think this is one of those cases.

[Astrosdawg07]

So how are you handling this situation Jax?

[JaxRolo]

So how are you handling this situation Jax?

If you take it verbatum : ART 1 ...Ball becomes dead immediately when:

(c ) the batter enters the batter's box with an illegal bat;

In reality the ball is not dead until the umpire calls it dead. If F1 comes up and he notices the illegal bat then he shall call time. B 1 Out.

If The umpire does not see the illegal bat and lets say the count is 3-1 then but the opposing coach or umpire sees it the Time B1 Out.

If B1 gets a base hit and its noticed before the next pitch to B2 then Both are out.

If it noticed after the next pitch to B2 then B2 out only.

To me this makes sense but I coulld be way off base.

[UMP45]

How are you getting a DP? How can you call B2 out when he didn't use the illegal bat? Sometimes it is not about common sense. I'm going to start using more smiley faces so people won't think I'm being an a$$!

[Astrosdawg07]

1 for using the illegal bat, (assuming it was unnoticed when he stepped in the box and the whole time while at bat) and then out number 2 comes from B2 entering the box with an illegal bat.

[JaxRolo]

1 for using the illegal bat, (assuming it was unnoticed when he stepped in the box and the whole time while at bat) and then out number 2 comes from B2 entering the box with an illegal bat.

I agree just like Brett was call out after the Home Run and then the new batter out for entering the box with the illegal bat.

[Rich Ives]

These 2011 interps were posted on ABUA site. Doesn't answer all the questions but does some:

SITUATION 6: Smith enters the batter’s box with a BESR aluminum bat. The opposing coach protests that since the handle of the bat is not round and that the taper is not smooth, it is an illegal bat. RULING: There are no restrictions on the shape of the handle, and the taper of the bat is not required to be smooth or round. Only the barrel of the bat shall be round, cylindrically symmetric and smooth. The bat is legal for play. (1-3-2b)

SITUATION 7: The batter enters the batter’s box with a BBCOR composite bat. The opposing coach wants him declared out for having an illegal bat. RULING: All BBCOR bats, aluminum or composite, are legal for play in 2011. The batter will be allowed to use the bat. (1-3-2e, f)

SITUATION 8: B3 enters the batter’s box with a bamboo bat and hits a bases-clearing triple. The opposing coach protests stating that a bamboo bat is not legal for play. RULING: The plate umpire will inspect the bat. If it has a BESR or BBCOR certification mark, it is legal for play in 2011. In the 2012 high school season, only non-wood bats that meet the BBCOR performance standard are legal for use. (1-3-2d, e, f)

SITUATION 9: During the pre-game inspection of the team’s bats, the umpires notice a hollow, composite BESR bat in the bat rack. RULING: If the hollow composite BESR bat has been granted a waiver and is listed on the “Approved Bats List,†it is legal for play. If the bat has not been granted a waiver, the umpires shall inform the coach that the bat is illegal and must be removed. (1-3-2g)

SITUATION 10: With the bases loaded and no outs, B4 hits a ground ball to the shortstop. The defense is able to get the out at third base on R2 and at second base on R3, but R1 scores and B4 is safe at first. The plate umpire picks up the bat used by B4 and notices that it is a hollow composite bat that is not on the approved waiver list. RULING: B4 is guilty of using an illegal bat. The defense has the option of taking the play or the penalty for using an illegal bat. The play will result in two outs, a runner at first and one run scored. The penalty will have B4 declared out and all runners will be returned to their respective bases at the time of the pitch – bases loaded, one out, no run scored. (7-4-1a)

[Astrosdawg07]

Is Virginia the only state that has added an ejection for using an illegal bat?

[alex7]

It would be hard to prove that you, as umpire, absolutely knew that the batter previous to the one currently entering the batter's box with the illegal bat, also used the illegal bat.

If an opposing coach claims it happened, that's great, but I probably didn't see it, so I'm not getting 2 outs out of it.