Weird Balk Question

[Mike Prince]

The pitcher in question has a very deliberate windup - he stops completely at the top of his leg kick, then continues to the plate.

On a few occasions last night with no runners on he loses his balance and has to abort the windup and put his lead foot down to keep from falling sideways. This is Cal Ripken minors so there are no balks and we "start over".

With R1/R3 this happens, "no pitch" is called before he attempts to deliver the pitch. He had not lost his balance completely yet but did put the lead foot down after the call was made. We then explained to him why we made the call (as is the custom in our early fall league games).

Was this the correct call? We got some chirping from his Dad/coach who apparently has taught him this 4-step windup.

[jjb]

Nothing illegal with a 4-step windup: find a clip of Hideo Nomo and you'll see what I mean. The problem is when he loses his balance and drops his foot without pitching: you've got a balk, plain and simple.

[Mike Prince]

Agree, his 'normal' windup is fine, that's where we had some chirping from the coach. He thought we called it for the windup mechanics. I think we confused the matter a bit by killing the pitch just before his lead foot came down. If we had waited another second to make the call it would have been a clearer explanation to the coach.

Perhaps a better question is whether the lean towards R3 constitutes a balk? I suppose in this specific situation there is the possiblity he could have regained his balance enough to actually deliver a pitch.

[JaxRolo]

The pitcher in question has a very deliberate windup - he stops completely at the top of his leg kick, then continues to the plate.

I Believe he needs a continuous motion or it is a balk.

With R1/R3 this happens, "no pitch" is called before he attempts to deliver the pitch. He had not lost his balance completely yet but did put the lead foot down after the call was made. We then explained to him why we made the call (as is the custom in our early fall league games).

What was your explanation?

At this age group they are probably going to Balk on just about every pitch. If you stop and have to explain then it going to be a long game.

I am not sure what Minors are but 10u they pitch and balks are not even mentioned. We just let them play. 12U we start calling balks and its very tricky depending on the coaching. Some want every little thing called and some want us to just call something that is very obvious.

[Mike Prince]

CR Minors is 9-10 year old. We are only calling very obvious balks/illegal pitches in the minors, we probably call one or two a game at most. A lot of them get ignored in the spirit of keeping the game moving along.

I told him (and his coach) that his motion was no longer to the plate but instead side to side (not a great explanation). Truth be told the real reason I called this one was because he had hit 2 of the previous 3 batters with off-balance pitches and I hoped that letting him know he needed to focus on coming to the plate would help prevent more HBP's (it did).

[Mr Umpire]

Well, first, delivery has to be continuous. If dad is teaching him to stop completely, then dad is wrong. It is a balk. However, unless he hangs in one place for about 2 or 3 seconds, then I would not address it.

Second, leaning is not a problem. Look at the submarine pitchers. The actually lean toward 1B/3B. Even pitchers like Jimmy Key went toward 1B as he was delivering the pitch. It matters where his foot lands and he throws the ball.

The only real issue I can tell is F1 not throwing the ball where his foot lands. As long as he throws it toward the base that his free foot goes toward, I have no balk.

[jnazz]

If this a Cal Ripken League using 60 ft bases with no lead offs until the ball crosses the batter --- no balks. 70 ft bases --- balk.

As far as the sitch. goes, if he loses his balance but still completes his motion to the plate I don't have a balk. If he loses his balance and puts his non-pivot foot down, I have a balk

[Mike Prince]

If this a Cal Ripken League using 60 ft bases with no lead offs until the ball crosses the batter --- no balks. 70 ft bases --- balk.

As far as the sitch. goes, if he loses his balance but still completes his motion to the plate I don't have a balk. If he loses his balance and puts his non-pivot foot down, I have a balk

Yeah, I know. I've been doing this CR age group for awhile, I should have worded my post a bit better so we don't get caught up in semantics - the age group really doesn't matter anyway. We did not call a balk, rather it was no pitch and we started over (which is what we always do in minors when there is an blatantly obvious illegal pitch that throws the batter off).

Looking back at this, the call was correct as the pitcher did come to a complete and long stop at the top of his leg kick, I just gave a poor explanation of the call. I am doing another game with this team tonight so I will find the coach before the game and do a better job of explaining why I stopped the pitch so that he can work with his son on it.

[Rich Ives]

Don't forget that you have to have runners to have a balk.

Nomo, and many Oriental pitchers, have a stop in their windup motion. Not a problem. But they use a standard set when there are runners on base.

[Fittske24]

Here is the Cal Ripken rule relating to Balks when leading off is not allowed:

OFFICIAL BASEBALL RULE 8.05 - BALK PENALTY (CAL RIPKEN

BASEBALL) - The ball is dead, the umpire shall warn the pitcher of the infraction and if

the infraction is repeatedly violated, would have the authority to remove the pitcher from

the game as a pitcher only.

[MikeLikesStrikes]

Figured I would post this here, rather than start a new thread. (Probably addressed before, but I can't find it in a search)

LL Jr. (14U) Modified OBR.

From the set. Pitcher lifts his leg to the balance point and STOPS, hangs for maybe 2 seconds, then steps toward home and pitches.

From the set. Pitcher lifts his leg to the balance point and STOPS, hangs for maybe 2 seconds, then steps toward 1B and throws to 1B.

Hot air from both dugouts and the nearest rulebook is in a team mom's minivan, 100 yards away.

OM: "F1 stopped his pitching motion."

DM: "F1 has not yet committed to home and can either step toward and throw to 1B OR step toward home and pitch. "

Me: "shaddup, I will find out and get back to you. For now, no stopping"

I am convinced F1 can go either way from this balance position. I am NOT convinced F1 can STOP, even though he has not committed to pitch.

Lemme have it.

[Mr Umpire]

Figured I would post this here, rather than start a new thread. (Probably addressed before, but I can't find it in a search)

LL Jr. (14U) Modified OBR.

From the set. Pitcher lifts his leg to the balance point and STOPS, hangs for maybe 2 seconds, then steps toward home and pitches.

From the set. Pitcher lifts his leg to the balance point and STOPS, hangs for maybe 2 seconds, then steps toward 1B and throws to 1B.

Hot air from both dugouts and the nearest rulebook is in a team mom's minivan, 100 yards away.

OM: "F1 stopped his pitching motion."

DM: "F1 has not yet committed to home and can either step toward and throw to 1B OR step toward home and pitch. "

Me: "shaddup, I will find out and get back to you. For now, no stopping"

I am convinced F1 can go either way from this balance position. I am NOT convinced F1 can STOP, even though he has not committed to pitch.

Lemme have it.

I hope this bolded is a joke.

Now, for the question. F1 cannot stop regardless of where he is committed to throw the ball. All motion must be continuous. If he just hangs there, then it is a balk. As long as something is moving, he is fine.

[mstaylor]

What MrUmpire said.

Oh, and welcome to the board. Stop by the intro section and let us know a little about you.

[jjb]

Not weird at all: we call it "The Flamingo". We see it at the beginning of almost every season. Pitchers and coaches stay up nights in the off-season, trying to beat the game. I keep telling them that the game is over 100 years old, and they can't think up anything new (and if they do, it's most likely illegal).

As to your question: under OBR 8.01b:

"After assuming Set Position, any natural motion

associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to the pitch without

alteration or interruption".

There ya go. You went with your gut, closed your eyes, used The Force, and had it right. Welcome to the Aslylum....