Hairy Call

[TNCoach]

Bottom of 7th in a FED game. Home team tied. Runners at 1st and 2nd. One out. Batter strikes out for second out of the inning. Runner at first has lost track of outs and thinks there are 3. He runs across the field toward his dugout on the third base side. Once he gets to the pitcher's mound, he realizes that there are only two outs. He runs back to first base. The fielding team attempts to make a play, but the runner gets back safely. The 2 base runner takes off to third and is safe. The runner at first then takes off to second and is safe. The runner at third scores on the throw to second. Fielding team argues that the runner should have been out before he made it back to first because he was out of the baseline and going toward his dug out. What would you consider the call?

[coach_ump4]

Rule 7.08 The runner on 1st is out for leaving the base path. The ball is still in play for the other runners. Rule of thumb I learned from another long time Ump "screw the team that screws up".

[yawetag]

What would you consider the call?

Game over. Home team wins.

[Rich Ives]

Rule 7.08 The runner on 1st is out for leaving the base path. The ball is still in play for the other runners. Rule of thumb I learned from another long time Ump "screw the team that screws up".

7.08 isn't a FED rule.

BUt in FED or anywhere else:

Runner didn't go far enought to be called out for abandonment.

The baseline in this case is NOT a line between bases. A runner is only out for a baseline thing if there is a tag attempt on the runner and he deviates more than 3 feet plus or minus from a straight line drawn from his position (anywhere on the field) at the time the tag attempt started to the base he is trying to achieve.

[semper_fi_72]

Rule 7.08 The runner on 1st is out for leaving the base path. The ball is still in play for the other runners. Rule of thumb I learned from another long time Ump "screw the team that screws up".

Leaving what base path?

The runner can run any where he wants unless a play is being made on him. He is the limited to 3 feet.

[TNCoach]

So the runner was not out for leaving the baseline? That was what started the whole mess. The batter coming up had not hit the pitcher all night, so by allowing the runner to run to the mound (going toward the dugout) would have been allowed?

Ruling made was that the umpire stated he messed up. He should have called the out, but it did not click. He calls the out, which is the third out.

[semper_fi_72]

Game over. Home team wins.

Only if it was a 7 inning game.

Don't assume because Fed Rules are being used that it is a 7 inning game.

[TNCoach]

Not far enough to abandon? He was at the mound, on his way to dugout. Helmet was off as well.

[TNCoach]

I guess, my question would be, at this point, is abandonment a judgement call that the umpire makes? If so, his call is right whichever way? Both umpires conferenced on it and called the runner out.

[yawetag]

Rule of thumb I learned from another long time Ump "screw the team that screws up".

And the defense didn't screw up in this play? How else does R1/R2 become a run scored and the other on 2B or 3B? They had an easy target in getting R1 out, and failed to do so.

Only if it was a 7 inning game.

Don't assume because Fed Rules are being used that it is a 7 inning game.

Good point. At the least, you've got a run scored.

Not far enough to abandon? He was at the mound, on his way to dugout. Helmet was off as well.

First time the team's had their helmet off: Warning. Second or more: Ejection.

I guess, my question would be, at this point, is abandonment a judgement call that the umpire makes? If so, his call is right whichever way? Both umpires conferenced on it and called the runner out.

Yes. Abandonment is judgment. Fed 8-4-2p Note: Any runner, after reaching first base, who leaves the baseline heading for the dugout or his defensive position believing that there is no further play, shall be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases.

There's a (rat) play called "Skunk in the Outfield." It's similar in the idea of a runner going WELL outside the line between 1B and 2B. In it, the runner isn't out until he moves more than the 3' line that's been mentioned, when the defensive team makes an attempt to tag him.

In the OP, as long as R1 never deviated from the 3' line, we've got nothing but bad playing on both sides. In this case, the offense won the battle.

[Rich Ives]

Runing toward the mound is a set play. Kinda a skunk in the infield.

[BrianC14]

And the defense didn't screw up in this play? How else does R1/R2 become a run scored and the other on 2B or 3B? They had an easy target in getting R1 out, and failed to do so.

Good point. At the least, you've got a run scored.

First time the team's had their helmet off: Warning. Second or more: Ejection.

Yes. Abandonment is judgment. Fed 8-4-2p Note: Any runner, after reaching first base, who leaves the baseline heading for the dugout or his defensive position believing that there is no further play, shall be declared out if the umpire judges the act of the runner to be considered abandoning his efforts to run the bases.

There's a (rat) play called "Skunk in the Outfield." It's similar in the idea of a runner going WELL outside the line between 1B and 2B. In it, the runner isn't out until he moves more than the 3' line that's been mentioned, when the defensive team makes an attempt to tag him.

In the OP, as long as R1 never deviated from the 3' line, we've got nothing but bad playing on both sides. In this case, the offense won the battle.

+1. The defense sounds as though they handled this the way a T-Ball team would.

Game over.

[mstaylor]

Runing toward the mound is a set play. Kinda a skunk in the infield.

It's called the broken mirror play.

[BrianC14]

It's called the broken mirror play.

Why? Because it brings 7 innings bad luck? :smachhead:

[mstaylor]

:confused: That's good stuff. :smachhead:

[Rich Ives]

I guess, my question would be, at this point, is abandonment a judgement call that the umpire makes? If so, his call is right whichever way? Both umpires conferenced on it and called the runner out.

If you call abandonment more than once every ten years you're doing it too often.

It's a rule that should go away because too many times it gets abused.

[Mr Umpire]

Run scored in the OP.

In FED, the runner has to get into DBT. OBR, they have to obviously not be running the bases anymore. Which would be in the dugout for me or going to their position (and even that wouldn't convince me unless they put on a glove getting ready to field). Too many plays are designed to not be in the "normal" area of the baseline. So, unless a tag attempt is being made, the runner is not going to be considered out of his base path to me from what it sounds like in the OP.