Bad Situation

[JaxRolo]

Had a DH yesterday I was PU in the first one. Right from the start at the plate meeting a had a bad feeling. Coaches talking over each other acting like they were in-charge.

First inning no problem.

Second Inning HT F1 Obvious Balk As I start to call it I hear 3rd base coach make some funny noises but he never yells out Balk. Nevertheless I call the Balk and HT HC starts telling me not to let the coach make my calls. I told him that I made the call. He goes on and on and he tells me "I want you to make the call not him"

I tell him not to tell me what to do. and he says "You will do what I tell you"

That was enough for me. he is gone.

The rest of the game went pretty smoothly with the HT losing 15-1

Second game I'm BU. We let the EJ Coach back in. 1st inning there is constant bickering/arguing between coaches. 2nd inning it starts again. PU call all the coaches in for a meeting. He tells him that this better stop. Show some sportsmanship and so on.

Well it continued and at one point there was a lady in the stands that came out on the field and announced she was a police officer and flashed her badge. She said if she heard anymore arguing or threats she would stop the game and take someone to jail.

The rest of the game went smoothly. HT lost again 10-0

Never had a situation like this. Any advice?

[UmpJM]

Jax,

At the first hint of bickering between opposing teams/coaches, shut it down immediately, with extreme prejudice.

At the second hint, toss somebody - preferably, at least one from each team.

Repeat as necessary.

JM

[semper_fi_72]

EJ one from each team in 2nd game.

Thank the Police Officer for their concern but until you call for a Police Officer, who happens to be on duty and not watching their kid play, her assistance is not needed.

Most good off duty Police Officers would never involve themselves in something like this.

[D62 blue]

Had a DH yesterday I was PU in the first one. Right from the start at the plate meeting a had a bad feeling. Coaches talking over each other acting like they were in-charge.

First inning no problem.

Second Inning HT F1 Obvious Balk As I start to call it I hear 3rd base coach make some funny noises but he never yells out Balk. Nevertheless I call the Balk and HT HC starts telling me not to let the coach make my calls. I told him that I made the call. He goes on and on and he tells me "I want you to make the call not him"

I tell him not to tell me what to do. and he says "You will do what I tell you"

That was enough for me. he is gone.

The rest of the game went pretty smoothly with the HT losing 15-1

Second game I'm BU. We let the EJ Coach back in. 1st inning there is constant bickering/arguing between coaches. 2nd inning it starts again. PU call all the coaches in for a meeting. He tells him that this better stop. Show some sportsmanship and so on.

Well it continued and at one point there was a lady in the stands that came out on the field and announced she was a police officer and flashed her badge. She said if she heard anymore arguing or threats she would stop the game and take someone to jail.

The rest of the game went smoothly. HT lost again 10-0

Never had a situation like this. Any advice?

WOW !!! thats a good war story . this is a htbt for sure . dont know if the cop was within her right to do what she did:FIRE: . it sounds like she put the fear of god in everyone . as for you and partner , we are all mostly amateur even when we get paid a game fee . we all have to go to work , ect.... i would suggest that the umpires suspend the game , and leave if you felt threatened, its not worth it. we umpire mostly for the love of the game and the enjoyment, who needs this type of situation . you didnt mention what level or league of ball , depending on this you could call an official and file a report . btw why did you allow the ej coach back into the second game ? i wouldnt have . also never work or be assigned when these coaches/teams play .

[JaxRolo]

WOW !!! thats a good war story . this is a htbt for sure . dont know if the cop was within her right to do what she did:FIRE: . it sounds like she put the fear of god in everyone . as for you and partner , we are all mostly amateur even when we get paid a game fee . we all have to go to work , ect.... i would suggest that the umpires suspend the game , and leave if you felt threatened, its not worth it. we umpire mostly for the love of the game and the enjoyment, who needs this type of situation . you didnt mention what level or league of ball , depending on this you could call an official and file a report . btw why did you allow the ej coach back into the second game ? i wouldnt have . also never work or be assigned when these coaches/teams play .

After the games I went to the cop and thanked her for what she did.

It was 11u travel teams.

I never felt threatened. It was mostly between coaches. Never heard complaints on our strike zones. There were a couple of close plays on the bases were they asked what we saw but that was it.

as far as letting him back in for the second game. He came to me between games and apologized saying that he was mad at the other coach and started yelling at me. He said that in 44 years of experience he had never been ejected from a game. blah blah blah

So we let him back in. In hindsight we should have kept him out.

[BrianC14]

After the games I went to the cop and thanked her for what she did.

It was 11u travel teams.

I never felt threatened. It was mostly between coaches. Never heard complaints on our strike zones. There were a couple of close plays on the bases were they asked what we saw but that was it.

as far as letting him back in for the second game. He came to me between games and apologized saying that he was mad at the other coach and started yelling at me. He said that in 44 years of experience he had never been ejected from a game. blah blah blah

So we let him back in. In hindsight we should have kept him out.

Why would you thank a policeman for intervening in this?

Why would you let an obvious jackass back into the game? 44 years experience - my ass. He's likely got 44 years experience of fooling young umpires.

Is it your league's policy that an ejected coach sit out the next game?

Edited May 10, 2010 by BrianC14

[Paperipper17]

Rolo, who were the teams? Sounds like a hell of a situation...

I have to say, I don't think there's any way I'd have let the rat back in. I'm sure a lot of coaches are nice, rational guys, but an EJ is an EJ. They aren't nice guys when we run them. Rats need to be taught a lesson in cases like that. I've never second-guessed your on-field judgment, and with the line he threw you, good toss. So I wouldn't have let him come back. If this is who I think it is, I wouldn't even have acknowledged him in the parking lot...I've heard him throw his 44 years in my face at least twice definite case of one year's experience, 44 times.

[JaxRolo]

Why would you thank a policeman for intervening in this?

We did not have control of the situation and after she stepped in not another word was said.

Why would you let an obvious jackass back into the game? 44 years experience - my ass. He's likely got 44 years experience of fooling young umpires.

That's the exact feeling I had was that he was used to talking to UMPS anyway he wants.

Is it your league's policy that an ejected coach sit out the next game?

I don't really know what our policy is (shame on me) since this had never happened before. It was travel ball playing FED rules. I glanced through the FED Book but could not find it.

I will find out what out policy is on this.

I know it is our fault we let the situation get that way but it will not happen again. I don't want to make excuses but I let the other Ump talk me into letting him back in. I said ok since he was the PU.

[JaxRolo]

Rolo, who were the teams? Sounds like a hell of a situation...

I have to say, I don't think there's any way I'd have let the rat back in. I'm sure a lot of coaches are nice, rational guys, but an EJ is an EJ. They aren't nice guys when we run them. Rats need to be taught a lesson in cases like that. I've never second-guessed your on-field judgment, and with the line he threw you, good toss. So I wouldn't have let him come back. If this is who I think it is, I wouldn't even have acknowledged him in the parking lot...I've heard him throw his 44 years in my face at least twice definite case of one year's experience, 44 times.

I texted you about this. I wished you had been my partner, it never would have gotten this far.

Do you know what our policy is on an EJ on a DH?

[Umpire in Chief]

Unfortunately, this is the huge problem with Travel/ USSSA/ AAU the lack of a core organization to enforce situations like this.

The ej may get reported in your association, but not to any higher authority.

Also the umpires won't have any say in the matter, that is up to their individual sanctioning body--- which is non existent. So generally the rats get to come back for the next game.

This is why I like tournaments where there is a TD to take care of these issues.

[JaxRolo]

Well after the "bad situation" on Saturday I worked a 12U softball game last night.

Everything went as smooth at it could have gone. Yey!!!

[DirtyDawg]

Gotta love softball to act as a quick picker upper!!

[MSPChris]

It was 11u travel teams. [snip] It was mostly between coaches.

I started to laugh when I read this -- because it confirmed for me my *extreme* distaste for umpiring younger games.

I love the kids, I umpire U16 and U19 but I coach my 8-year-old's team and love it. (not a traveling team, BTW).

I used to umpire for U12 but I stopped because I got so sick of the coaches and parents. I was going to rant for a little bit, but I'm sure that every umpire reading this knows exactly what I mean.

So, Jax -- hats off to you for doing these games.

[JaxRolo]

Some games are just Great.

Most are OK.

Some you wish you were never involved.

[Mike Prince]

Some games are just Great.

Most are OK.

Some you wish you were never involved.

Well said. I do a lot of 10U/9U games for our association and we had a real bad one last week, both coaches ejected. Thought we were going to have to call the police to remove one of them. Had parents apologizing to us after the game. That falls into your last category for sure.

Last night I had plate in a 9U game with one of the teams from that game (they are in close to last place) against the first place team. No issues and it was actually on the upper end of the "good/OK" scale as it was actually a competetive game.

The next game was also 9U and it was easily the best 9U game I have done all year:

- My partner was a younger guy who I worked with a few weeks ago and he struggled mightily behind the plate then (his first game back there), last night he was just about perfect in this game and it was great to tell him so after the game and see the look of relief/appreciation on his face.

- We had HT up 2-0 middle of the 4th with 11 minutes to go on no new inning time limit. HT coach (who is also an association board member) tries to get us to end it, we say no way we need to finish the inning and get to time limit with that score. HT goes down 1-2-3, VT takes lead 3-2 in top of 5th with 1 minute to go till drop dead time limit which takes the time limit off the table under our local rules. VT then hits max run limit, HT gets their chance and scores 2 but can't tie it and we have a 5-4 result.

This one was a great game.

[DirtyDawg]

Some games are just Great.

Most are OK.

Some you wish you were never involved.

Sounds like me and any night that whiskey is involved.

[PeteBooth]

Rolo, who were the teams? Sounds like a hell of a situation...

I have to say, I don't think there's any way I'd have let the rat back in. I'm sure a lot of coaches are nice, rational guys, but an EJ is an EJ. They aren't nice guys when we run them.

First off as umpires we have NO Jurisdiction concerning a player/coach EJ'd and whether they can play in another game.

Many leagues have an automatic one game suspension but the point is that's NOT our call. When you EJ a person from game one he is done for game 1 but NOT necessarily for game 2. That is up to the league protocol.

If he deserves to get dumped in game 2 then dump him in game 2.

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

I don't really know what our policy is (shame on me) since this had never happened before. It was travel ball playing FED rules. I glanced through the FED Book but could not find it.

You will NOT find it in the FED rule-book as suspensions etc. are by State Adoption. If this league is playing by FED rules, then check with your local HS association and see what the penalty is.

FWIW most states have an automatic one game suspension.

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

It was 11u travel teams.

I echo Warren generally speaking 11/u travel / rec leagues are the worst. There is no discipline etc.

Pete Booth

[PeteBooth]

Second game I'm BU. We let the EJ Coach back in. 1st inning there is constant bickering/arguing between coaches. 2nd inning it starts again. PU call all the coaches in for a meeting. He tells him that this better stop. Show some sportsmanship and so on.

Well it continued and at one point there was a lady in the stands that came out on the field and announced she was a police officer and flashed her badge. She said if she heard anymore arguing or threats she would stop the game and take someone to jail.

Not condoning the actions of the coaches but IMO you and your partner let this bu*****t go on way to long

1st inning there is constant bickering/arguing between coaches.

Something should have been done RIGHT there and then. In other words a STERN that's enough should have been said.

2nd inning it starts again

1. TIME

2. Both coaches dumped

If there were no other coaches around = game over - end of story

PU call all the coaches in for a meeting. He tells him that this better stop. Show some sportsmanship and so on.

Well it continued

Not necessary as the behavior still continued.

there was a lady in the stands that came out on the field and announced she was a police officer and flashed her badge.

If you did your job, there would have been no reason for this police officer to come onto the field. Being a police officer she must have felt (based upon her experience) that 'something BAD was going to happen" based upon the fact that there was bickering/arguing going back and forth between the coaches.

In general I agree with Brian on his point about a police officer being allowed on the field. However, your OP is different because things were getting out of control and you and your partner were NOT controlling things.

If you and your partner are going to do this type ball where you have Daddy coaches and a league with no descipline then brush up on your game management skills.

The bickering back and forth carried on way to long.

Pete Booth

[mstaylor]

Had a DH yesterday I was PU in the first one. Right from the start at the plate meeting a had a bad feeling. Coaches talking over each other acting like they were in-charge.

First inning no problem.

Second Inning HT F1 Obvious Balk As I start to call it I hear 3rd base coach make some funny noises but he never yells out Balk. Nevertheless I call the Balk and HT HC starts telling me not to let the coach make my calls. I told him that I made the call. He goes on and on and he tells me "I want you to make the call not him"

I tell him not to tell me what to do. and he says "You will do what I tell you"

That was enough for me. he is gone.

The rest of the game went pretty smoothly with the HT losing 15-1

Second game I'm BU. We let the EJ Coach back in. 1st inning there is constant bickering/arguing between coaches. 2nd inning it starts again. PU call all the coaches in for a meeting. He tells him that this better stop. Show some sportsmanship and so on.

Well it continued and at one point there was a lady in the stands that came out on the field and announced she was a police officer and flashed her badge. She said if she heard anymore arguing or threats she would stop the game and take someone to jail.

The rest of the game went smoothly. HT lost again 10-0

Never had a situation like this. Any advice?

In a case where the coach yells balk before you do then bad things happen. When the OC complains that the coach talked you into it, tell him that the coach doesn't have to follow correct mechanics so will always be faster. Telling him not to tell you what to do was bad form on your part. Then go tell the DM that balk is a word reserved for umpires and you not be hearing from him again. If you do, dump him.

As far as bickering between coaches shut it down. Your partner tried to by calling the coaches out to a second plate meeting. Anything after that is an automatic. If absolutely need to get rid of people that refuse to conform to basic standards of decorum. If you tell them no more or else, you have to dump them as part of the or else.