Not sure about this whole thing....

[Thunderheads]

Discuss..........

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=19231045

[mazzamouth]

Did you see what happen in the game the night before... Clayton was talking a bunch last night.... good call.

[Thunderheads]

Did you see what happen in the game the night before... Clayton was talking a bunch last night.... good call.

Yes, Mike, ...I knew all about it. No warnings, ...no issues during the game. In the 6th ....he's pitching a 1 hit shutout, strike 1 was inside, and he hits him on the elbow??

I'm not a Dodgers fan, or a Diamondback fan, ...just looking at this from the outside....

[carolinablue]

Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. It's a known fact that pitchers do hit batters on purpose sometimes and in this case there was a motive. If he didn't do it on purpose then he's just a victim of circumstance but it's not the umpire's fault. It's part of the game.

[txump81]

I would guess there was a discussion about what happened the night before in the pregame. So as soon as it happened, Bill just reacted. The pitch was WAY inside. I know it was after the ejection, but watch how the catcher bounced out and got between the two. He knew what was going on. Probably a little quick on the trigger, but if a warning was the only thing that happened, then there is another HBP and the benches clear, the warning is not enough.

In my opinion, after the episode the night before, an ejection was used to put out the smoldering coals before they ignited.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Well, I am sure. It was laughably quick. My son and I just laughed out loud at the absurdity of an elbow nick getting a guy waved while he's cruising with a one-hitter and trying to win a triple crown and a Cy. It was truly a joke. Any umpire who injects himself like Welke did makes umpiring harder for all of us. My son is an experienced pitcher, and we watched both games together rather closely, dissecting everything like always. So we knew the whole story, and were watching in eager anticipation for the first hint of a purpose drilling--especially of Parra or of Kershaw while he batted.

Kershaw's not going to graze him like that with a purpose pitch, especially not in the sixth inning of a one-hitter! If anything, he would dump him in his last at bat, and only if the score were not 1-0.

I think most of us would have warned at that point, and nothing else would likely have happened. Kirk Gibson probably has more control of his team than any manager in the league, and he's not going to let guys get suspended while his club's cruising to the postseason. It would have stopped with the warning, and Kershaw would have another 1-0 shutout on his way to dethroning Halladay.

(Note: I hate the Dodgers, but I love baseball and umpiring, and this one was just wrong.)

[Kevin Finnerty]

[Mr Umpire]

Well, I am sure. It was laughably quick. My son and I just laughed out loud at the absurdity of an elbow nick getting a guy waved while he's cruising with a one-hitter and trying to win a triple crown and a Cy. It was truly a joke. Any umpire who injects himself like Welke did makes umpiring harder for all of us. My son is an experienced pitcher, and we watched both games together rather closely, dissecting everything like always. So we knew the whole story, and were watching in eager anticipation for the first hint of a purpose drilling--especially of Parra or of Kershaw while he batted.

Kershaw's not going to graze him like that with a purpose pitch, especially not in the sixth inning of a one-hitter! If anything, he would dump him in his last at bat, and only if the score were not 1-0.

I think most of us would have warned at that point, and nothing else would likely have happened. Kirk Gibson probably has more control of his team than any manager in the league, and he's not going to let guys get suspended while his club's cruising to the postseason. It would have stopped with the warning, and Kershaw would have another 1-0 shutout on his way to dethroning Halladay.

(Note: I hate the Dodgers, but I love baseball and umpiring, and this one was just wrong.)

But, on the flip side, this may have been a blessing for Kershaw. So many blow up after hitting a batter. He may have been done a favor.

But, I agree it was quick IMO. A warning is all I would have done unless it was later in the game and did appear to be Parra's last AB. Then, I may have thought more for the ejection but it depends on how the game was going and what the score was.

[mstaylor]

I don't know what happened the night before but he was cruising through an one hitter and suddenly can't find the plate twice? I don't watch NL so I have no idea of any of the semantics in the teams, but when he got tossed he was elligible for the win, did he get it?

[Mr Umpire]

I don't know what happened the night before but he was cruising through an one hitter and suddenly can't find the plate twice? I don't watch NL so I have no idea of any of the semantics in the teams, but when he got tossed he was elligible for the win, did he get it?

Yes. Also, he missed the plate once. It was an 0-1 count. Which, to me, makes even less sense to eject him. And, watching Parra on that and the night before, is he always a little punk? His antics after the HBP and the night before makes me compare him to Nyjer Morgan. And, I don't know about Parra, but I wouldn't want to be compared to Morgan.

[mstaylor]

The pitch before was inside also, if I am understanding the situation correctly. What did happen the day before? I don't even know half the players in the NL, I don't know if either team is in a pennant race, anything. I mearly am noting that if there was history between them, why come inside on him and risk getting tossed? It is also my understanding that MLB is pushing the umpires to be more proactive about batters being thrown at.

[Umpete]

I don't know what happened the night before but he was cruising through an one hitter and suddenly can't find the plate twice? I don't watch NL so I have no idea of any of the semantics in the teams, but when he got tossed he was elligible for the win, did he get it?

Mike,

Here's an interesting article about the whole thing. Yes, he did get the win.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/851220-clayton-kershaw-why-dodgers-ace-cy-young-candidate-was-ejected

[mstaylor]

So basically the story confirms what I said without knowing exactly what happened.

So you have a batter admiring his handiwork the night before. You have the starting pitcher for the next game telling him to watch out. You have the same batter get the only hit of the game and then he hits him. Seems pretty straight forward. The only thing that would have made it easier is if he had hit him square.

[Lindsay]

I don't know what happened the night before but he was cruising through an one hitter and suddenly can't find the plate twice? I don't watch NL so I have no idea of any of the semantics in the teams, but when he got tossed he was elligible for the win, did he get it?

Mike,

Here's an interesting article about the whole thing. Yes, he did get the win.

http://bleacherrepor...ate-was-ejected

Yay! My article

As I wrote in my article, I firmly believe retaliation via the hit by pitch is and has been a part of baseball culture for a long, long time. 8.02(d) gives the umpire the option of ejection or warning when it comes to an intentional pitch at the batter. It's certainly not straightforward either way. My QOC Quick Vote poll that is posted for every ejection on my site so far shows a very divided group: 40 "Correct" & 44 "Incorrect" votes... though it's not exactly a slam dunk either way, absolutely no one thought this was "Inconclusive."

I admittedly have no way of knowing exactly what the crew discussed in their dressing room (I've always preferred the hockey term), but I'd like to think the last few paragraphs of my article puts you in the mindset of the HP Umpire during this episode...

Welke and his crew prepared for this exact moment. The umpires, more than anyone, know Rule 8.02(d) inside and out. They've watched video of pitchers going after batters, mound charges, bench clearing brawls, games getting out of control. They know Cy Young candidates like Kershaw have pinpoint control. The day before, Kershaw heatedly yelled at Parra, “You’ll find out.†Earlier in the game, Kershaw surrendered his only base hit, a double, to Parra. When Parra came up to bat, fans were loudly cheering every swinging strike, booing every ball and hit.

Fast forward to Kershaw-Parra in the sixth inning. Pitch No. 1 is an inside corner fastball, strike one. Pitch No. 2 is even more inside and hits Parra.

What would you do?

[mstaylor]

Excellent article Gil.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Good article, Gil. We were all waiting for your take on this one.

Intent on a pitch can be seen as guesswork, but there's actually a fundamental for it. I learned it 18 years ago, long before I became an umpire.

I had the distinct privilege of being a reporter in Dusty Baker's office after a beanball war with the Cubs one night in 1993. Both Dusty and his counterpart, Jim Lefebvre, were ejected, as were their replacements and several pitchers. When a manager is ejected, he generally has some time to sit in his office and think (and drink). By the time the game ended, Dusty was already in his undershirt and shorts with a Silver Bullet in his hand, ready to reflect on the whole beanball war, the rulings that were made, and of course, his view of the lameness of the rule behind it. He also discussed how lame and wussy players are today: "They don't know how to get out of the way anymore; they just stand there and shrink their head in their body like a turtle. Then they get drilled in the back and get all mad and start charging the mound. Don't get drilled and you won't get so mad."

But while he was in the middle of his discussion, he reflected on being a young hitter facing guys like Bob Gibson and Don Drysdale. In addition to longing for the days when the game policed itself, Dusty had this to say about a pitcher's intent when throwing a pitch: "When I went up there in a drilling situation against somebody like Gibson, I would look at his eyes when he was about to deliver the pitch, and if he was looking at me, I was ready to bail, because you have to look at where you're throwing it. If he's looking over at the strike zone, he's not trying to drill me." (That's what he called it, a "drilling situation." )

So, ever since that day, I have watched for that. And as an umpire, I absolutely do look at the pitcher's eyes in a "drilling situation." If he's looking at the hitter, and drills him, I damned well take action. Sometimes there's even a more gritty expression on the pitcher's face when it's intentional.

So maybe Kershaw looked abnormally gritty to Bill Welke when he went a little in off the plate and grazed Parra.

[mstaylor]

I like that explanation. And he is right, the batters stand there like idiots with body armor on and then want to get mad when they get plunked. If they aren't smart enough to get out of the way or man enough to take it then MLB has to step up enforcement.

[Kevin Finnerty]

I like that explanation. And he is right, the batters stand there like idiots with body armor on and then want to get mad when they get plunked. If they aren't smart enough to get out of the way or man enough to take it then MLB has to step up enforcement.

Back in Dusty's day, a guy like Parra who stood and watched a ball that went two rows deep wouldn't get grazed, I'll tell you that. I always loved recalling that session from that night. Fueled partly by anger and partly by Coors, he went on and on about the game and the way it has changed. It was fascinating. When you played with Aaron and Torre and Reggie Smith, and against Mays, and Clemente and Gibson, you have some cool stories to tell.

[Thunderheads]

also, ...what people need to remember is that Parra had the only hit in the game. Kershaw threw an outside corner fastball that he ripped. So, ..next time up, ...we pitch him inside, since he ripped an outer side fastball ....