Can type B become type A

[carolinablue]

I am familiar with the two types of obstuction in OBR.

Type A- Immediate dead ball

Type B- Delayed dead ball

Situation: R1, clean hit in gap, easy double. R1 is obstructed by F4 as he rounds 2b. BR stumbles as he rounds 1B. Throw comes into 3B as R1 slides in.

At this point, since the play is being made on the obstructed runner, does this , which was originally type B, now become type A obstuction and a dead ball. The reason I ask is because if it is a delayed dead ball a play could be made on the BR trying to reach 2B after he stumbled rounding 1B. So the way it is called is significant.

[mazzamouth]

I am familiar with the two types of obstuction in OBR.

Type A- Immediate dead ball

Type B- Delayed dead ball

Situation: R1, clean hit in gap, easy double. R1 is obstructed by F4 as he rounds 2b. BR stumbles as he rounds 1B. Throw comes into 3B as R1 slides in.

At this point, since the play is being made on the obstructed runner, does this , which was originally type B, now become type A obstuction and a dead ball. The reason I ask is because if it is a delayed dead ball a play could be made on the BR trying to reach 2B after he stumbled rounding 1B. So the way it is called is significant.

Not in NCAA... the ball stays a live until all playing action has ceased.

In this play you live it live till everything is done, then award bases that you thought he would have gotten.

[jjb]

Figure it this way: It is a "Play" if there's a:

1. tag or tag try of a runner

2. tag or tag try of a base

3. throw to another fielder in a try to put out a runner

4. rundown

5 Balk

(pg 28 of the J/R, for those of you playing the Home Game)

Type A is Obstruction which it concurrent (at the same time) as the play.

So, in your sitch, you've got OB by F4, and, apparently, you're protecting him to 2nd. This is Type B, and you'll protect him to 2nd. Delayed Dead Ball. If he tries for 3rd, he's on his own, and, if he's tagged, sucks to be him. Now, if he's obstructed by the third baseman, as he's being tagged, you've got Type A, and a Dead Ball. See?

[jjb]

Mazz is right: in NCAA, everything's live: I thought you were talking straight OBR

[mstaylor]

This was a question that created a HUGE!!!! argument probably ten years ago. Type A is always type A and type B is always type B. As I read the OP I believe you are saying the runner was obstructed after second. Now that is a type B obstruction and decide how far you are going protect him. You can say you are going to protect to third or just back to second. If you are protecting him to third and he gets thrown out then call time and award him third. If you are protecting back to second and he gets thrown out going back into it then again call time and give him second. If you protect him to second and he tries for third and gets thrown out, tough cookies, he overran his protection and is on his own.

Just remember that on type B you need to announce it when it happens and then let the play finish. When the obstructed runner is played on and is tagged out before his protected base then that is where you kill it. If he makes it then leave it live. All this is for OBR only.

In Fed and NCAA obstruction is always a delayed dead ball. In Fed you have one type and ou are giving the runner at least one base past his last legally aquired base, more you deem it neccessary. NCAA still uses the two types but with a delyed dead ball.

Hopefully one of the current college guys can weigh in on the NCAA portion of my answer.

[mstaylor]

If I read it correctly this is the beginning of a rundown and be type A to it's an imediate dead ball and he gets third. With the ball in the outfield it will be type B but I don't have him getting third, so if he gets thrown out trying to return to second then award second. In type B you are nullifying the obstruction so you can't award more than where you have him protected.

[carolinablue]

The hit was a gapper( obvious double ). I would have the R1 protected to 3b. The obstuction was between 1b and 2b, but the 1st play ( throw from OF ) came into 3B in an attempt to retire the obstructed runner. Is this considered type A or Type B. I know it is at least a delayed dead ball at the time of the infraction.

[carolinablue]

Alright, so it's type B and we have the R1 protected to 3B, but here's what I'm not clear on. Remember the BR who stumbled rounding 1B. Say the ball comes into 3B and beats the R1 and he would be out ( except that he was obstructed ). Do we kill the play there, or do we let the defense make a play on the BR at 2B and then kill it and nullify the out at 3B due to obstruction, and let the play at 2B stand.

[Mr Umpire]

Alright, so it's type B and we have the R1 protected to 3B, but here's what I'm not clear on. Remember the BR who stumbled rounding 1B. Say the ball comes into 3B and beats the R1 and he would be out ( except that he was obstructed ). Do we kill the play there, or do we let the defense make a play on the BR at 2B and then kill it and nullify the out at 3B due to obstruction, and let the play at 2B stand.

Yes. All play has to stop. Don't make a call on R3 unless he is not protected to 3B or unless he is safe. Call the play on the BR. Then, call "Time" and inform them "R3 stays at third b/c I have OBS on F4".

Edited March 26, 2010 by Mr Umpire

[mstaylor]

As soon as a play is made on the obstructed runner, kill it. The BR place as you see fit but don't let play continue. Play has concluded when there is an out to be called on the obstructed runner. If he is safe then let play continue.

[Mr Umpire]

As soon as a play is made on the obstructed runner, kill it. The BR place as you see fit but don't let play continue. Play has concluded when there is an out to be called on the obstructed runner. If he is safe then let play continue.

Is this in a manual or something since I don't have mine with me? The rule clearly states "until no further action is possible". After that, call "Time".

[mazzamouth]

Alright, so it's type B and we have the R1 protected to 3B, but here's what I'm not clear on. Remember the BR who stumbled rounding 1B. Say the ball comes into 3B and beats the R1 and he would be out ( except that he was obstructed ). Do we kill the play there, or do we let the defense make a play on the BR at 2B and then kill it and nullify the out at 3B due to obstruction, and let the play at 2B stand.

It depends on what rules your using.. NCAA you still let all playing action go until it's over, then you award bases.

[mstaylor]

From the MLBUM:

Under this section of the obstruction rule, the obstruction is to be signaled by the umpire pointing

laterally at the obstruction while calling loudly and clearly, "That's obstruction." The ball is not

dead, however, and the umpire shall allow play to continue until all play has ceased and no

further action is possible (see exception in NOTE (1) below). At that moment, the umpire shall

call "Time" and impose such penalties, if any, that in the umpire's judgment will nullify the act

of obstruction. It is important to note that in cases occurring under this section of the obstruction

rule, the umpire shall not call "Time" until all action has ceased and no further play is possible.

NOTE (1 ): If a runner is obstructed under this second section of the obstruction rule, play is to

proceed to completion-even if it results in a play later being made on the runner who was

previously obstructed. However, if such a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that

runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded

because of the obstruction, the umpire shall in that case call "Time" at the moment the runner is

tagged out. The umpire shall then impose such penalties that will nullify the obstruction, which

will include, of course, the obstructed runner being awarded the base to which he would be

entitled because of the obstruction.

(6) Runner on first base, no one out. On a hit-and-run play, the batter hits a fair ball down the

right field line. In rounding second base and heading for third, the runner from first collides with

the shortstop and falls down. Because of the collision, the runner is not able to advance to third

base and returns to second as the ball is being thrown back to the infield. Had the runner not

collided with the shortstop, the runner would have easily advanced to third base.

Ruling: Obstruction is called when the collision occurs, but the ball remains in play because no

play was being made on the obstructed runner at the moment he was obstructed. "Time" is called

when all action has ceased, and the obstructed runner is awarded third base because that is the

base he would have reached had no obstruction occurred. The batter-runner would also be placed

at the base he would have reached had no obstruction occurred (either first or second, depending

on the umpire's judgment).

NOTE: In this play, if the runner from first had been thrown out going back into second base, the

umpire would call "Time" the moment the runner is tagged out. The obstructed runner would

then be awarded third base (assuming that is the base he would have reached had no obstruction

occurred), and the batter-runner would also be placed at the base he would have reached, in the

umpire's judgment, had no obstruction occurred.

[kylejt]

I hate to oversimplify things, but you need a ball in mix for Type A(at the time of the obstruction), if not, it's Type B.

[PeteBooth]

I am familiar with the two types of obstuction in OBR.

Type A- Immediate dead ball

Type B- Delayed dead ball

Situation: R1, clean hit in gap, easy double. R1 is obstructed by F4 as he rounds 2b. BR stumbles as he rounds 1B. Throw comes into 3B as R1 slides in.

At this point, since the play is being made on the obstructed runner, does this , which was originally type B, now become type A obstuction and a dead ball. The reason I ask is because if it is a delayed dead ball a play could be made on the BR trying to reach 2B after he stumbled rounding 1B. So the way it is called is significant

.

In OBR Type B does not turn into Type A.

Why!

Because under Type "A" in OBR the runner is AUTOMATICALLY awarded one base beyond his position when he was obstructed.

Example: R1 in a pickel between 1st / 2nd. As R1 starts to advance towards second base he is obstructed by F4.

The call is

1. TIME

2. That's OBS

3. R1 is awarded second base.

Type B is different because in Type B OBS we award bases (IF ANY) that nullfiy the act of OBS.

Example: R2 base hit to RF. R2 rounds third and is obstructed by F5. throw to the plate where

R2 is tagged out on a close play or

R2 is out by a mile

In the former, R2 would most likely be awarded home. In the latter, the out call would stand because absent the OBS the runner was a "dead-duck" anyway.

In OBR: Type B OBS is "killed" the moment we have a tag attempt on the runner per JR and the MLBUM and I believe Evans as well. In other words in OBR you do not wait untill ALL playing action ends as we do for FED / NCAA. When there is a tag attempt on the obstructed runner the play is dead at that point and we either make awards or let play stand.

FED is different. In FED, the obstructed runner ALWAYS gets a minimum of one base beyond his position when he was obstructed. Therefore, in FED if R3 is obstructed rounding third base even if he is thrown out by a mile he still is awarded home.

Also, in FED we wait until ALL action ceases.

Use my original sitch. F2 applys a tag on R2 coming home BUT the BR trys for second base so F2 after tagging R2 throws to second base to get the BR.

In FED we let it "play out" and then make the awards. In other words R2 scores because he was obstructed AFTER third base and whatever happens at second base stands.

Pete Booth