Appeal Denied - Ruling Correct?

[midwayll]

LL Rules (which follows OBR for the most part):

Situation: R1 less than 2 outs. Batter-Runner hits a single to RF. R1 trucks into 3rd but misses 2nd. Play has stopped but ball still live, of course. Defense wants to appeal and instead of throwing over to second, they throw over to 3rd to tag R3 (which, of course, they can do). 3rd base coach knows R3 missed second so as soon as the pitcher throws over to 3rd base he sends the runner home. Now the 3rd baseman, who has caught the thrown ball from the pitcher, throws home to the catcher. Catcher drops ball, R3 is safe at home. Run scores, R1 moved over to 2nd base. Defense still wants to appeal but ruling on the field is that the defense lost its chance to appeal when they attempted a play on R3 at home. Appeal denied, count the run, play on. Manager argues that the attempted tag at home was still part of the appeal and not an attempted play; therefore, he says they can still throw to 2nd to appeal the missed base. Umpire rules no, play had essentially stopped when R1 reached 3rd base and therefore, there was no continuous action. The throwing of the ball by the 3rd baseman to the catcher was an attempted play and the defense loses all rights to appeal. Was the umpire correct in his ruling?

The above situation came up in a training session and while most agreed the umpire got it right, some felt he did not. What is the consensus here?

I have also posted this on umpire.org as I know not everyone visits both sites.

Thanks in advance for your comments. I will take everything learned here back to next week's session.

Chris

Edited March 19, 2010 by midwayll
edited to state which set of rules is being used

[Mr Umpire]

Appeal denied.

[Umpire in Chief]

It is unfortunate that umps get caught in the middle of this where both ends of the stick are s:censored:y. It was heads up coaching by the 3rd base coach. Now hopefully the other team will learn a better way to appeal. But kids will get excited and "want to make a play"

[mstaylor]

The umpires were correct for the level they were working. In Fed and College they would be wrong. In HS and College the defense can play on the runner if he initiates the play and still get the appeal.

[carolinablue]

If they were certain he missed and the umpire saw it, they probably should of just ignored the runner and continued with the appeal.

[kwiggie]

The umpires were correct for the level they were working. In Fed and College they would be wrong. In HS and College the defense can play on the runner if he initiates the play and still get the appeal.

So if I read this right, making a play at home is irrelavent to the appeal process (fed). The defensive team could simply make a "dead ball" appeal at 2nd after they fail to make the out at home on what would be r3. Run doesn't count, but if r1 advances to 2nd he stays, based on the fact that the defensive team opted to make a live play on the runner taking off for home? yesno

[noumpere]

So if I read this right, making a play at home is irrelavent to the appeal process (fed). The defensive team could simply make a "dead ball" appeal at 2nd after they fail to make the out at home on what would be r3. Run doesn't count, but if r1 advances to 2nd he stays, based on the fact that the defensive team opted to make a live play on the runner taking off for home? yesno

Yes

[mstaylor]

Yes, as noumpere said. Same in college.

[PeteBooth]

If they were certain he missed and the umpire saw it, they probably should of just ignored the runner and continued with the appeal

.

There is NO way for the defense to be CERTAIN that the umpire saw the missed base. It's the old adage - "Never trust an umpire". It's akin to a close pitch on 3-2 - SWING as you never know if Blue will ring you up.

From the OP

Now the 3rd baseman, who has caught the thrown ball from the pitcher, throws home to the catcher. Catcher drops ball, R3 is safe at home.

In a nutshell R3 was a "dead duck" but F2 dropped the ball. If you were F5 you would most likely do the same thing. Yes the runner missed the base BUT if you ignore and continue the appeal and the umpire rules safe you have just given the offense a "cheapie"

FWIW: That's where the NCAA / FED Appeal rule is much better. In NCAA and FED if the offense initates the action, the defense can still appeal. In FED the point is moot anyway because in FED, you can appeal during a dead ball.

In OBR, if the manager KNOWS his runner missed the base, he will simply send the runner(s).

Pete Booth