"FED Legal" Baseballs

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

FED Rule 1-3-1 clearly and unequivocally states:

"The NFHS Authenticating mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition."

If you are working a FED game as the UIC and there are no baseballs available at the game site with the required Authenticating Mark, though there is an ample supply of baseballs that appear to be otherwise perfectly suitable, what do you do?

Thanks.

JM

[mstaylor]

Play the game and let your assignor know so he can inform the proper people to fix the problem. I don't usually have a problem with baseball but other sports it can be tougher.

[LMSANS]

That's what it says. I would find it difficult to not play a game because the baseballs supplied did not have the NFHS logo, but met all of the other criteria.

[Stan W.]

I had to supply baseballs for a rural HS game as no one had thought to bring any...I offered them to the coaches...and asked do you want to play with these or reschedule?

we played the game......

the NFHS mark does not mean quality.....AD Starr makes NFHS approved baseballs and they are, IMHO, of a lesser quality.......The balls I had in my car were Diamond PONY balls......

[Ump Rube]

Gentlemen,

FED Rule 1-3-1 clearly and unequivocally states:

"The NFHS Authenticating mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition."

If you are working a FED game as the UIC and there are no baseballs available at the game site with the required Authenticating Mark, though there is an ample supply of baseballs that appear to be otherwise perfectly suitable, what do you do?

Thanks.

JM

Hmmm... I feel like I have read this before. But, I just cannot put my finger on it.

[Umpire in Chief]

Rule 1-3-1 is interesting in one line it says:

A minimum of three umpire-approved baseballs shall be provided to start the game.

But then says:

The NFHS mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition.

So umpire aproved seems to give discression to the umpire until you get to the marked ones.

No less than two baseballs shall be used to complete the game.

Now what if you hade some fluke where you never had to put another in play, is the game declared a "no contest?":shrug:

[Stan W.]

Now what if you hade some fluke where you never had to put another in play, is the game declared a "no contest?":shrug:

warren,

IIm willing to bet you, some coach has thought of that as well......I'm not sure of who the poster was, it might have been Tim C.......but a long time ago, it was offered that "sometimes you just have to umpire.."

which I think might fit in here.....

As to baseballs, Im not getting hung up on the ball rule....I offered baseballs to the coaches and asked them if they wanted to play or reschedule....(after paying me+ partner, of course)

The balls were Diamond PONY balls, and in the opinion of the UIC, (me) they were approved for play......they did not have the NFHS stamp...but having seen some of the baseballs that have the NFHS stamp, the PONY balls were better quality....

[DirtyDawg]

There shouldn't be a need for less than two balls to be used because I believe it is written in there that at the beginning of the game each pitcher should start with a new ball. Typically the coaches in this area give one ball to their pitcher to start with, a couple of balls for the umpire's bag, and then one ball to the opposing pitcher to start the game. I know in fastpitch it is considered the ball-rotation rule. I can't remember if they put any special name on it in baseball, or if it is just a generalization that has been practiced in the area.

[PeteBooth]

Gentlemen,

FED Rule 1-3-1 clearly and unequivocally states:

"The NFHS Authenticating mark is required on all balls that will be used in high school competition."

If you are working a FED game as the UIC and there are no baseballs available at the game site with the required Authenticating Mark, though there is an ample supply of baseballs that appear to be otherwise perfectly suitable, what do you do?

Thanks.

JM

JM depends upon what state you are from.

In my association we had a protest upheld because the wrong baseballs were used.

I was not involved in the game but around the 3rd / 4th inning Team A noticed that the baseballs did meet the requirements outlined in 1-3-1 and lodged a protest.

The protest was up-held and the game had to be replayed in it's entirety.

You said at the beginning of the game so in my "neck of the woods" at the beginning of the game I would call over the DA (if available) of the home school along with the coaches and get clarification. If the VT coach had a problem I would then contact my HS assignor and let the powers to be" sort things out.

In summary: It depends upon the state where you live. As mentioned in my area, I would not start the game without getting an ok from the "powers that be" because a protest in which the proper baseballs were not used was already upheld.

Pete Booth

[mstaylor]

Wow Pete. That is major OOO on the protest committee's part In MD the state interpreter says play but let the school admin and/or your assignor know the proper balls were not supplied. I would also tell the coaches at that time we are using alternate baseballs. The other option is to ask the visiting coach if he has NFHS baseballs. If not we are playing with what we have.

[PeteBooth]

Wow Pete. That is major OOO on the protest committee's part In MD the state interpreter says play but let the school admin and/or your assignor know the proper balls were not supplied. I would also tell the coaches at that time we are using alternate baseballs. The other option is to ask the visiting coach if he has NFHS baseballs. If not we are playing with what we have.

Michael it might be rediculous but IMO it's NOT being OOO. We adhere to our bosses so to speak. Me personally I couldn't care less if they used a baseball that was down to the cork (which when I was a kid we used many a time)

It is similar to when FED went from -5 bats to -3 bats. During the first year that the new rule was adopted I cannot tell you how many bats we discarded that year when checking equipment.

The point is the AD's and coaches attend the beginning of the year meetings in which these things are discussed. The HT schools should have the proper baseballs. If they don't then IMO AHEAD of time they should notify the other team involved and the HS assignor BEFORE the officials arrive at the field so there is no problem.

It's my guess that the protest was upheld to make certain that the schools have proper equipment and it will not be tolerated if you do not.

Yes on the surface if appears to be OOO but as mentioned we do not write the rules and unfortunately the umpires take the hear for something that the AD's and coaches should have handled well in advance of the officials showing up at the game.

Pete Booth

[Umpire in Chief]

As ridiculous as it is I agree with upholding the protest. It is a crazy rule, but a rule just the same and if some coach wants to get his panties all in a wad over it and can't accept playing with the baseballs available then he's an @$$ but that's his prerogative.

[dawg-man]

I know that alot of schools have a tight baseball budget and they will scrimp and save where they can. Baseballs are one way of doing so. I have never had a coach question the baseballs that we have used. If a coach really wants to raise a stink about this then I agree with Umpire In Chief 100 %. He would be a real A$$ Hole.

[BrianC14]

I know that alot of schools have a tight baseball budget and they will scrimp and save where they can. Baseballs are one way of doing so. I have never had a coach question the baseballs that we have used. If a coach really wants to raise a stink about this then I agree with Umpire In Chief 100 %. He would be a real A$$ Hole.

I've always been left to wonder about that irony.... each kid has a $400 bat, $200 gloves, $120 spikes, and yet the team can't supply enough baseballs for a 20 game season. :angel4:

[dawg-man]

My partner and I were umpiring a fall ball highschool game a few years ago and the field was located near some woods with really thick underbrush. One night we had alot of foul balls that went deep in the woods and noone would go get the balls. In the 5th inning my partner asked for baseballs and no one would give him any. He waited a few minutes and then called the game. We never had that problem again.

[UmpJM]

As ridiculous as it is I agree with upholding the protest. It is a crazy rule, but a rule just the same and if some coach wants to get his panties all in a wad over it and can't accept playing with the baseballs available then he's an @$$ but that's his prerogative.

Warren,

I've got to disagree with your agreement on upholding the protest, for two different reasons - either one of which would, in my opinion, be sufficient reason for denying the protest.

1. The FED Official Interpretation, published in the NFHS News the year the "authenticating mark" language was added to the FED rule book says (paraphrasing) "Play the game with the balls without the mark and report it to the state association".

2. There is no way in hell that playing the game with balls that did not have the mark affected the protesting team's opportunity to win the game.

The decision to uphold the protest was absurd and incorrect.

JM

[PeteBooth]

Warren,

The decision to uphold the protest was absurd and incorrect.

JM

JM

Unfortunately, we live in the world of lawsuits. Also, as I mentioned it's not like the AD's and coaches do not KNOW what the "deal is" concerning equipment. It's no different then requiring the NOSCEA sticker on the helmets or bats having the BESR label on them and so on and so forth.

if you see a bat WITHOUT the BESR label on it are you going to allow said player to use it or if you discard it that's being OOO?

What about the rule requiring coaches to be in uniform. Are you going to allow a coach to coach in one of the coaches boxes without a uniform on (assuming JV and varsity level - modified is an altogether different story) or discard that rule because it's being OOO.

We do not WRITE the rules. We enforce the rules given to us by our cleints. Also, I do not know about your area, but enforcing these rules is part of the rating system.

In your opinion the decision to uphold the protest might be absurd and incorrect but after that incident no more baseball problems.

IMO, a "slap on the wrist" means nothing and that's exactly what will happen if you do nothing. Coaches will start to bring any type baseballs to the game because NOTHING is done when a team does not have the proper baseballs.

On the surface it appears rediculous but I can understand why the protest was upheld.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

Pete,

The thing is...

1. No rule was "misapplied". The FED rule book and case books, do not specify the "penalty" if the home team does not have "properly marked" baseballs. The only published FED interpretation on the question says "play the game anyway and report if afterwards". So, that IS the rule, and it was properly applied.

It occurred to me that the NYPHSAA may have published their own ruling on the question, so I looked. Imagine my surprise when I found this statement in the NYPHSAA "High School Standards" document published on their website.

GAME BALLS - NFHS authenticating mark is not required on game balls for competition.

(To be fair, this is in the "current" document posted on their website and that language may not have been in place at the time the protest was alledgedly upheld.)

2. It is impossible, since both teams were playing with the same baseballs, that one team was "disadvantaged" relative to the other because the balls lacked the "mark".

So, as I said earlier, the decision to uphold the protest was absurd and incorrect.

JM

[PeteBooth]

Pete,

The thing is...

1. No rule was "misapplied". The FED rule book and case books, do not specify the "penalty" if the home team does not have "properly marked" baseballs. The only published FED interpretation on the question says "play the game anyway and report if afterwards". So, that IS the rule, and it was properly applied.

JM

With many of these type FED rulings, FED leaves it up to each state to administer punishment if any.

You will not find in the rule book any penalty associated with an EJ. However, most states require the player and or coach who gets EJ'd to serve a one game suspension, HOWEVER, as mentioned that is not a FED mandate.

Then there are protests, Again the FED leaves it up to each state as to whether or not to have protest procedures in place.

That's why I prefaced my answer with "in my neck of the woods"

The bottom line it is up to the state and umpire association you belong to that decides these types of matters. Since in my area a precedent was already set when a team does not have proper baseballs I will enforce the rule or get clarification "up front" before I begin.

Pete Booth

[UmpJM]

JM

... Since in my area a precedent was already set when a team does not have proper baseballs I will enforce the rule or get clarification "up front" before I begin.

Pete Booth

Pete,

Did you not even READ my post???

The NYPHSAA has published their "clarification" and I just quoted in my post - it's pretty unambiguous. What additional "clarification" do you require?

I agree with your point that any state association is free to impose whatever sanctions/penalties they see fit - despite the official FED interp which says to play the game and report it to the state association.

How do you believe a team's chance to win could be adversely affected relative to their opponent by the use on "non-marked" baseballs?

It's absurd.

JM