2 Man-Big Field Mechanics

[chuck]

Most of my experience is small field. During full size field pregame, have been told by more experienced umpires that while BU is in B or C, he will have catch/no catch responsibilities in the "V". So, right or wrong that is my assumption. Was coaching LL Jr's last night, 2 man, R2, no outs. Umpire in C. Routine fly ball (or should have been) to right. RF misjudges, then comes in at last minute to make a knee high, snow cone catch... maybe. Has ball, how secure is up to someone's judgement, and isn't the real point here. Continues 2 steps, then attempts transfer, my judgement, and drops ball. BU never moves from C, doesn't make a signal, R2 returns to bag, and batter runs to and stops a 1st. Still no call, although BU turns and looks at PU. Time, what you got PU? Conference, answer from PU "Ball is on the ground". Ok, play on. Question is, what would the proper mechanics be? I understand that I wasn't at pregame. Since BU didn't go out, then I assume he has tag up at 2nd, and PU has catch/no catch. Is no call appropriate in this sitch?

[bayoublue]

Fly ball to right with BU inside,is plate guys responsibility. If F9 is moving towards Center, than BU now has the catch/no catch. Sounds as if the plate umpire was not watching his responsibility and passed it on to his base umpire

[chuck]

Yes, and I see how they got crossed up, as RF moved late, and slightly toward CF. If BU thought it was his, wouldn't he move "out", and the fact he didn't should have clued PU?

[Mr Umpire]

Yes, and I see how they got crossed up, as RF moved late, and slightly toward CF. If BU thought it was his, wouldn't he move "out", and the fact he didn't should have clued PU?

BU never crosses the infield even on balls that are his responsibility. In this case, he should line R2 and the catch up as best as possible while still on the infield grass. He doesn't "go out" on the ball while in the middle, only to the edge of the grass if necessary but not with an R2 only since he has tag up and play at 3B.

My rule of thumb is if F9 comes in or back or towards CF, BU has it. He has to watch it anyway. The only reason he doesn't have it towards the line is the PU has to make a fair/foul call as well.

HTBT to see why BU didn't make the call but it sounds like he should have made it since it wasn't towards the line.

That is just how I handle it basically. The "V" is from F9/F7's normal position, in/out, and towards F8.

[nopachunts]

Yes, and I see how they got crossed up, as RF moved late, and slightly toward CF. If BU thought it was his, wouldn't he move "out", and the fact he didn't should have clued PU?

When I'm PU and a fly ball is hit, unless I see the BU point to his shoulders that he has the catch/no catch, I will take the catch/no catch. You also have to talk to each other so each knows what the partner is doing, not just guessing.

[mstaylor]

It sounds like the PU should have taken the call. The BU actually has to back up not go closer, even if it is his call. He has the tag and advance to third if there is any.

I have never seen the hands to shoulders mechanic. If it is questionable whose it is the PU announces either, I have the ball or it's yours. My preference is if it is questionable, as the PU, I take it.

[BrianC14]

Another important facet of this is communicating with your partner.

If F9 didn't move initially, then at some point, the UIC needs to take control here, since the BU has the tagup responsibility at 2B.

UIC should call out to his partner, "I've got the ball, Jim." Even if F9 then moved toward center at the last minute, then both umpires know who's going to have the catch/no-catch.

Some of the best umpires I've worked with will even call out to me when I"m in B or C, "That's all yours, Brian!" - even if the ball is well inside the "V". There's no harm in communicating this sort of thing. When a ball's in the 'doubtful' category, then the UIC needs to take charge here.

:shakehead:

Edited November 14, 2009 by BrianC14
clarity

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Why is this becomming so complicated?

Chuck , your understanding here is correct. When BU is in the middle, he/she has the calls in the "V". and he NEVER goes out from this location. The catch no catch responsibility shifts to the Plate Umpire when the ball takes the RF or LF toward the line. In this situation, the BU is responsible for the catch no catch, tag up and any play that results. To answer one of your last questions... No Call is NEVER appropriate in this situation

[mstaylor]

To answer the is no call ever appropriate, NO! A play that has the opportunity to make an out needs a call. Thos is a catch/no catch and in most cases the BU has this call when inside. When in doubt whose it is somebody has to say who is taking it. I prefer that to be the PU. To me the BU probably had a better angle. The only thing the PU can do to get an angle is move toward the ondeck circle.

[BrianC14]

Why is this becomming so complicated?

Chuck , your understanding here is correct. When BU is in the middle, he/she has the calls in the "V". and he NEVER goes out from this location. The catch no catch responsibility shifts to the Plate Umpire when the ball takes the RF or LF toward the line. In this situation, the BU is responsible for the catch no catch, tag up and any play that results. To answer one of your last questions... No Call is NEVER appropriate in this situation

Who said it was complicated? It isn't, you're correct.

It requires communication, though, when the ball is hit to an area that might leave some doubt, just as in the original post. Not making a call - you bet - that's a sure sign that there was no communication between the crew. Mike: I agree w/ the positioning of UIC... he needs to go where he can get the best angle on this.

[Chris Hickman]

I know it is referred to as the "V" or the cone but the bottom line is this. With runners on in 2 man, the BU is responsible for all flyballs in the outfield.....unless the PU calls him off by saying " I got the ball...or I'm on the line. Now if there is an "iffy" ball hit...... you, as the BU has to take a peek and see if you plate guy is coming up the line before making a call. You don't want double calls. That play needed a "no catch" mechanic....by someone. Communication is HUGE in a play like this.... There is a DVD put out by MLB and PBUC that explains 2 man.... might be a good investment. Good Luck.

[Thunderheads]

Why is this becomming so complicated?

Chuck , your understanding here is correct. When BU is in the middle, he/she has the calls in the "V". and he NEVER goes out from this location. The catch no catch responsibility shifts to the Plate Umpire when the ball takes the RF or LF toward the line. In this situation, the BU is responsible for the catch no catch, tag up and any play that results. To answer one of your last questions... No Call is NEVER appropriate in this situation

OK, I've just read this 10 times and it's still contradictive, ...is it not??

Please, someone help me

I've tried to break it down,....here ....

Chuck , your understanding here is correct. When BU is in the middle, he/she has the calls in the "V". and he NEVER goes out from this location.

Ok .... BU in the middle, has teh V and never moves, ..got it.

The catch no catch responsibility shifts to the Plate Umpire when the ball takes the RF or LF toward the line.

Ok ...now PU has the catch no catch when there are balls hit toward the lines....got that ...BUT....BUT....it's followed by this...

In this situation, the BU is responsible for the catch no catch, tag up and any play that results

But you just said the PU is responsible for catch no catch?? Am I missing something?:banghead:

[Umpire in Chief]

But you just said the PU is responsible for catch no catch?? Am I missing something?

PU is only responsible if F7 or F9 are going from their normal position to the line. From the OP I take that F9 is coming straight in and would therefore still be BU's call on the catch no catch.

From the inside BU should try to take all fly balls that aren't going to be trouble. So if you have a towering fly ball where F7/F9 takes a few steps towards the line, but there is no fair/foul question then BU should take that as well. But the communication needs to be there. Like Chris said.

BTW welcome Chris (again )

[NovaScotiaBlue]

Hi Thunderheads..

The last line of my post that has you shrugging was a based on what I thought I read from Chucks original posting. I did'nt think the ball was near the foul line in his posting so therefore it would still be the BU's call. That's all I was saying

[Thunderheads]

Hi Thunderheads..

The last line of my post that has you shrugging was a based on what I thought I read from Chucks original posting. I did'nt think the ball was near the foul line in his posting so therefore it would still be the BU's call. That's all I was saying

Regardless of what the OP said, .... I was confused about your post because it contradicted itself. Hopefully I broke it down properly so you could see where I got confused.

Now, ....granted, ...I DO confuse easily!:angel4:

[BamaBlue]

See if this helps. It's a powerpoint presentation for 2 man and 3 man mechanics. Alabama has their own mechanics manual so they can change things that need to be changed. That's what this presentation is based off of but I think it's pretty standard.

http://ghua.net/MechanicsTraining/tabid/85/Default.aspx