Enough is enough

[T-Rav]

So I've been umpiring my LL district Juniors (13-14 y/o). The tournament ended Thursday, the winning team had to win two games. There is a coach with the "blue" team who just does not seem to respect umpires in general. The first championship game I was slatted to do the plate with 2 base umpires, pretty good guys but they wore basketball shorts. On Wednesday we had a 2 hour lightning delay, and the game was scheduled to start at 8:50 per the tournament director. My two BU's left, and I called them back when the alarm turned off at 8:30, U1 was back in time and TD wanted to start with just us because of the delay. So the teams had 20 minutes to warm up, so I call out the managers. The white teams coach stalled and was "changing his lineup", so I shout "I need the manager here", he is in front of his dugout slowly walking towards us. He shouts "your on my time now", the TD, HC, & U1 all look at eachother and one of them say whats this guys problem. I told the coach, we are doing our plate meeting and are starting this game, he asks me if "I am willing to accept the liability of his kids playing not warmed up". I told him we are starting this game now and he can take it up with the TD. So the TD and him start getting into it and I realize this is just going to be a arguement so I intervine and ask the coach for his line up... and do the plate meeting and we start the game.

I wasn't feeling to great about my zone, I had allot of border line strikes that I called but no one really complained, one coach shouted after 2 strikes on the same place "hes been calling them all day, swing!". U1 had allot of close calls, the first one U1 refused to get help on the call and they had a little argument. After another close call the HC yelled from his dugout, I walked up the 3rd base line because I heard some shouting after the call, and I hear- what I think was the HC shout "that's three you blew", I immediately put up the stop sign and said "that's enough coach", he looked at me and said "what?" I still had my stop sign up and repeated myself loudly. The teams F2 said to me I hope you toss him, no one likes him.

In the 5th inning I have a ball out of play, award the proper bases R1 to 3rd and BR to 2nd. Problematic HC comes out and protests, we get it resolved, I back up my ruling with the rule. We play ball. F1 balks R3 scores R2 goes to 3rd. Defenses HC comes out and tells me I need to "learn baseball 101", immediately I shut him down and send him back to the dugout.

Game ends at 12:10 at night, wrong team wins, so we have to play one Thursday night.

Rain in the area, I call my partner- no answer, text him no answer. As I walk in I see the problematic HC's league president who I know well, ask whats up with the HC and he tells me he has been coaching for 22 years and is a royal pain. He asks about a couple calls that I explain to him about, I ask if hes seen my partners, yep they were on the field. All most of these guys have is light blue, so I wore that, but PU is wearing navy with U1 in light blue and basketball shorts. I explain to him my problems last night with the HC and that the game ended at 12:10. Hes wearing an inside CP and a balloon CP, we get to the plate for the plate meeting I stand where I should be U1 is next to PU and the nice HC is next to me, problem HC is not out of his dugout, so I shout " JEFF WE ARE READY" he walks over and I make sure to shake his hand. PU then says to me, Travis can you lead this. I comply. PU stance was on one knee and everyone was complaining about not hearing his strike call, I tried to help him out and he did pretty good though.

U1 had a close call in the 2nd inning, it looked like he was off the bag, and 1st BC was jumping up and down saying he was off the bag. Problem HC comes out and argues it. U1 comes to PU I jog over, PU wasn't looking U1 wasn't looking, they have nothing.

Game goes smooth, very close score. In the 5th inning ball foul ball hits batter in the box then rolls to pitcher, I'm screaming time while coming down the 3rd base line PU hears me and throws his hands up, everyone looks at me I shout foul ball hit the batter in the box. Here comes problem HC, he tells me how can I see it from 100 feet away, I tell him that I saw the ball hit the batter(his son), and told him in my judgment I have a foul ball. He turns to the PU who wondered in here, and says "do you know what a strike is, why didn't you call the ball foul?" as I coax the HC to his dugout PU says "I didn't see it, so I am going with his opinion that the ball hit him." :tantrum:That really got the HC going he said something as I turned away, that made me put up the stop sign and say that's enough. The crowd went wild, and were chanting "toss him", one guy yelled "grampa didn't take his meds."

R2 runs to 3rd with the pitcher who had the ball. R2's is beat by the ball, 3rd baseman misses the tag I'm right in the running line, perfect position for the swipe tag, I sell the safe call. Problem HC comes running out. I told him I had him safe, he missed the tag. Let him do all the talking, he asks if I can check with my partner, no. He walks close to 3rd base and asks his 3rd baseman if he tagged him, kid says yes. I immediately tell him that's a visit. Ace pitcher has to come out now, HC went nuts. I calmly explained he talked to his player, making it a visit. He could have killed me if he had a gun. He stormed off, game ended and his team won.

I regret not punching his ticket. Last time I will put up with this little prick. :shakehead:

[sdix00]

He walks close to 3rd base and asks his 3rd baseman if he tagged him, kid says yes. I immediately tell him that's a visit. Ace pitcher has to come out now, HC went nuts. I calmly explained he talked to his player, making it a visit. He could have killed me if he had a gun. He stormed off, game ended and his team won.

I regret not punching his ticket. Last time I will put up with this little prick.

"That's a visit" - classic. I don't know if I would charge the final visit without a warning, but I will definitely remember this one. I can't imagine how hot you must have been.

Also, I think I was hallucinating when I read it but I thought you said your partner was in Basketball shorts.

[Stan W.]

yes, you definately had more than a few opportunities to punch his ticket .........

[Rich Ives]

He walks close to 3rd base and asks his 3rd baseman if he tagged him, kid says yes. I immediately tell him that's a visit. Ace pitcher has to come out now,

Based on what? Nothig you've said leads to this.

[MPLSMatt]

I've been through a couple of these, so I'm not trying to criticize but I think that you let it go too far on both nights. There are 3 specific points:

1) On night one, I'd think I'd have dumped for "learn baseball 101" especially after you'd already used the stop sign on him once and it was clear that this guy was going to be a problem. To me that comment equates to "you don't know what you are doing." If it's the first time I'm dealing with a guy and he's been respectful but say's "come on blue, that's baseball 101" I might let it go. But after he's already counted calls and made a scene of embarrassing you and now is talking down to you, send his ass home.

2) On day two - first, it looks like your partner should have taken care of things after the "do you know what a strike is comment" but that's not your fault. However, once he "discussed" the call with you (the foul ball), then on his way to the dugout breaks into a "tantrum." If it truly was a tantrum he has to go. If it was just a prolonged argument, I may (depending on my mood) gone with, "Bill, we've discussed this - that's enough" very early on to give him one more chance (certainly not required), but you can't let it get to the point where members of the crowd are yelling at you to toss him or making comments. Beside the fact that it makes you look you've lost control, it also creates a dangerous situation as the coach may respond to the comments.

3) I really think that you have to figure out a way to make sure that he doesn't come out to challenge a call more than once or twice, especially if he is being loud or putting on a show. I don't know how other people feel but my thinking is that once he's gotten the stop sign once, if he wants to come out and talk he better be an angel.

Like I said, I only say this all from experience - I lost control of a couple of games when I first got into it by being too passive. Don't take this to mean that you should be looking for ejections (a common mistake after a missed ejection), but this was an incident where sending the guy home would have probably helped keep things under control. That said, with partners in basketball shorts in a 14 year old tourney, you were set up to fail.

[MPLSMatt]

Also - the visit was a reach and probably only made things worse. Be careful not to poke the bear in these situations.

[carolinablue]

He walks close to 3rd base and asks his 3rd baseman if he tagged him, kid says yes. I immediately tell him that's a visit. Ace pitcher has to come out now, HC went nuts. I calmly explained he talked to his player, making it a visit. He could have killed me if he had a gun. He stormed off, game ended and his team won.

I regret not punching his ticket. Last time I will put up with this little prick.

"That's a visit" - classic. I don't know if I would charge the final visit without a warning, but I will definitely remember this one. I can't imagine how hot you must have been.

Also, I think I was hallucinating when I read it but I thought you said your partner was in Basketball shorts.

And also the PU had an inside CP and a balloon. WTF.

[T-Rav]

From our district UIC any talk with a defensive player = visit. There have been several situations were marginal visits have been called. My called visit was marginal, but when the coach decides to walk 15 feet away from me to ask a player if he tagged him, given the circumstances I felt it was warranted. Every one in the tournament was worn out and tired. My league president, whom I will become UIC for next year, told me she heard nothing negative about our performance.

Certainly it wasn't my best performance, but when getting home at 1:00 am from volunteering to umpire a single game and being at a field for 6 hours, its tough to be in the best mental state.

Matt, thanks for the list of advice, I appreciate it and will most defiantly use it in the future. On the bright side, they assigned me to work the sectionals, with some very experienced umpires so that will be a nice little break.

[Rich Ives]

From our district UIC any talk with a defensive player = visit. There have been several situations were marginal visits have been called. My called visit was marginal, but when the coach decides to walk 15 feet away from me to ask a player if he tagged him, given the circumstances I felt it was warranted. Every one in the tournament was worn out and tired. My league president, whom I will become UIC for next year, told me she heard nothing negative about our performance.

Certainly it wasn't my best performance, but when getting home at 1:00 am from volunteering to umpire a single game and being at a field for 6 hours, its tough to be in the best mental state.

Matt, thanks for the list of advice, I appreciate it and will most defiantly use it in the future. On the bright side, they assigned me to work the sectionals, with some very experienced umpires so that will be a nice little break.

So if you yell from the dugout it's a visit?

The rule says if the coach is granted time to talk to any player it's a visit. Your call did not meet this criteria.

And which visit was it? You didn't say. A pitcher only has to be removed on the third visit in an inning or 4th in the game.

[noumpere]

"That's a visit" - classic. I don't know if I would charge the final visit without a warning, but I will definitely remember this one.

It's classic alright - classically wrong. And you should remember it as long as you remember not to do it. lol.

[Forest Ump]

So many different things here to comment on. I'm not going to dump on you. This is a learning moment in game management. When he didn't come to the plate meeting and he yelled at you that he was on his time, I would have responded with Coach, You are on my time, if you do not come to the plate meeting then your replacement will. When he said you needed to learn Umpiring 101. You should have dumped him. He showed you up. Remain calm and cool headed when dealing with these types. Warn him, and then eject him. No 2nd warning or another "that's enough". You'll get it. It just takes time.

[Rich Ives]

Did the TD set an official starrt time or did he and you just walk out to the plate and basically say "lets go now"?

BTW, if it's a tournament game the game cannot use any local rules - it has to be by the rule book as written.

[semper_fi_72]

1210?

Is that not past the curfew time under LL tournament rules.

Only one of the many problems I see in the OP.

You have a lot of issues there.

[T-Rav]

Did the TD set an official starrt time or did he and you just walk out to the plate and basically say "lets go now"?

BTW, if it's a tournament game the game cannot use any local rules - it has to be by the rule book as written.

No, when the lightning detector turned off he told the teams to warm up on the field. I'm pretty sure he told them 8:50 start time, that's roughly 20 minutes or so. But the HC was not pleased with the prompt start time.

1210?

Is that not past the curfew time under LL tournament rules.

Only one of the many problems I see in the OP.

You have a lot of issues there.

12:30 for LL juniors tournament rules. Very very long.