Balk???

[AmackNH]

Let me start out by saying I am a new umpire (about 10 games this year). Here is the situation...Runners on 1st and 3rd. F1 fakes to 3rd, fakes to 1st, then catches Runner on 3rd in a rundown at the plate...does he not have to deliver the ball to 1st on the pickoff attempt?

Also,

Runner on second. Pitcher makes a legal move and attempts a pickoff throw at second base. F6 broke late to the bag and the pitcher delivered the ball to F6 about 10ft to the left of the bag...VM went nuts that it was a balk cause F6 wasnt at the bag...

[yawetag]

Let me start out by saying I am a new umpire (about 10 games this year). Here is the situation...Runners on 1st and 3rd. F1 fakes to 3rd, fakes to 1st, then catches Runner on 3rd in a rundown at the plate...does he not have to deliver the ball to 1st on the pickoff attempt?

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

Also,

Runner on second. Pitcher makes a legal move and attempts a pickoff throw at second base. F6 broke late to the bag and the pitcher delivered the ball to F6 about 10ft to the left of the bag...VM went nuts that it was a balk cause F6 wasnt at the bag...

No balk.

[noumpere]

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

And if his foot did not come off the rubber then its a balk in pro rules whether he fakes or throws to first but in HS its allowed to throw to first on this move if the foot doesnt come off the rubber

[mstaylor]

Tell your VM to calm down. The pitcher only has to throw to first. To second he can throw or feint so as long as the SS is closer to second than third then he is fine. If there are runners on second and third then he can throw to SS anywhere on the side.

[carolinablue]

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

And if his foot did not come off the rubber then its a balk in pro rules whether he fakes or throws to first but in HS its allowed to throw to first on this move if the foot doesnt come off the rubber

Would someone give a rule ref. on this.

[UmpJM]

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

And if his foot did not come off the rubber then its a balk in pro rules whether he fakes or throws to first but in HS its allowed to throw to first on this move if the foot doesnt come off the rubber

Would someone give a rule ref. on this.

8.05( c ) Comment. 6.4.2C Ruling.

JM

[carolinablue]

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

And if his foot did not come off the rubber then its a balk in pro rules whether he fakes or throws to first but in HS its allowed to throw to first on this move if the foot doesnt come off the rubber

Would someone give a rule ref. on this.

8.05( c ) Comment. 6.4.2C Ruling.

JM

Thanks JM, I had heard this before but wasn't sure where it was coming from. Doing LL, I often read thier rules instead of OBR and they leave out alot of the comments and notes. I assume it is legal in FED because there is no such comment in thier rules?

[mstaylor]

When in doubt on a Fed rule, read the casebook covering the rule in question.

[fullcount13]

As long as his pivot foot came off the rubber between the move to third and the move to first, there's no balk. Once his foot is off the rubber, he's an infielder, and the "can't fake to first" rule is not valid.

And if his foot did not come off the rubber then its a balk in pro rules whether he fakes or throws to first but in HS its allowed to throw to first on this move if the foot doesnt come off the rubber

I can't even picture in my head how someone would somehow step towards 3B, fake and throw and then spin to throw to 1B without their pivot foot coming off the rubber. Has anyone ever seen this happen?

[carolinablue]

Yes, in a middle school game. I did not call a balk, not because I knew it wasn't but because it was a ridiculous blow out game. The other teams pitchers were not even close and I could have called balks all day long. Now thanks to this thread I know it's not a balk under FED rules.

It's not the most graceful looking thing but it can be done. At first I was like WTF, did I just see that.

[Stretch]

FED case book:

6.2.4 SITUATION C:

With R1 on third and R2 on first, F1 comes set. He then feints toward third, or he removes one hand from the ball and makes an arm motion toward third but does not step toward third. He follows with a throw to first base. RULING: This is a balk. F1 must step toward third base when feinting there. F1 may not feint to first base. He must step toward the base and throw. He might, while he is on the plate, step toward occupied third and feint a throw, and then turn to step toward first and throw there with or without disengaging the pitcher's plate. If F1 steps and feints to first, he must first disengage the pitcher's plate or he is guilty of a balk.