Dash Riprock

The batting order is Adam, Butch, Claire, Devo, etc. Adam leads off and is beaned. Claire bats in Butch's spot and is ejected for arguing balls and strikes before a pitch is thrown. Chip replaces Claire and singles, with the speedy Adam cruising into 3rd base standing up. Before a pitch is thrown to Devo, the defense appeals batting out-of-order. a. When Chip enters the game, by rule he is considered to have replaced Butch (the proper batter). There is no BOO violation but Butch is out of the game. b. Adam is returned to 2nd base. c. Chip is an illegal substitute. d. Butch is out. Chip bats again.

Slide means reverse rotation with PU staying home.

'Protection' to a base only applies to the runner who was obstructed (although other runners may be forced by an award). Non-obstructed runners are awarded bases (or called out) to nullify the act of obstruction.

Teach them to swing at everything they can reach, and never listen to a coach who tells them to take a strike, because we will find one. It's in the rules.

Presumed umpire laziness is not a good reason to change a mechanic.

J/R has the same play (less than 2 outs, batter hits a throw with R3 stealing) with the same ruling.(interference, R3 is out).

What happens when an illegal pitch is illegally batted (non FED)? This thread needed to be hijacked anyway.

I don't like to warn coaches at the plate meeting. I assume they know the rules and deal with it if they don't. I can see why you might want to do that if a single ejection can terminate the game, though. Glad I don't work GA U trip.

Maybe I shouldn't have registered using my real name.

It doesn't say MUST, but it does say SHALL (call two outs). Same thing.

Thanks Jeff.

Interference. R3 is out. You can't illegally bat a throw, only a pitch.

I dunno, what do you think? Close enough to fool the defense? Close enough to slide? Since the rules don't say, I suppose we get to use our good judgment, at least until some authority determines that this play happens so often we need a case play to settle the matter. ________________ Sure they do. The abandonment rule is quite clear, and there is nothing in there that says the rule ceases to apply when the runner is close enough to the plate to fool the defense or to slide. That part is not subject to judgment. If you are going to render a judgment that you know is wrong (judging that the runner passed the plate when he did not), it would be far better to judge that he touched the plate (and deny the missed base appeal) than to uphold an appeal on something that is not appealable. Now you are misapplying a rule as well as delivering a dishonest judgment.

I don't agree with this ruling. When R3 slides in just short of the base, pops up, and heads off toward the dugout, I will rule that he has passed the base and thus acquired it, pending a properly constituted appeal from the defense. If his dugout is on the 1B side, he WILL IN FACT physically pass the base. Perhaps if his dugout is on the 3B side, he might not physically pass the base on his way to the dugout. It is arbitrary and capricious to allow the side of a team's dugout to dictate an application of the rules: if one side has passed the base, then so has the other. The first case is useful for illustrating the concept of abandonment and the kind of play where one would declare a runner out for it. At what point is the runner 'close enough' to the plate for you to consider him having passed it? IOW, at which point in the baseline does the abandonment rule get replaced by the missed base appeal rule? That would be arbitrary and capricious.

1. FED: The ball stays live (delayed dead if you will). At the end of action, R3 is placed wherever the umps think he would have wound up absent the OBS. NCAA: Same as FED except the ball is dead immediately. OBR: No OBS. 2. FED: Dead ball when R1 is tagged out. He is awarded 2nd base. NCAA: Dead ball on the OBS, R1 awarded 2nd base. OBR: No OBS. 3. FED: Dead ball when R1 is tagged out at 2nd. R1 awarded 2nd, R3 (probably but not mandatory) awarded home. NCAA: Same as FED except the ball is dead on the OBS. OBR: No OBS.

Thanks for the welcomes. I'll try to not wear them out.

8-5j AR [No run when the BR makes the 3rd out at 1st] 8-6b.(9) [Force Play appeal!]

FED 8.4.1.D says if the umpire thinks a DP could or would have happened, he must make it happen.

Hi Folks. This is my first post here. I was the one who posted this question on the ABUA site (sorry about that, or you're welcome, whichever applies). I must say - the discussion here is far more provocative. I am in the score the run camp. I will try to REALLY boil it down (and add something I think is new). 1. There is strong rules support for the notion that an advantageous 4th out can only result from an appeal. 2. The only type of appeal that applies to the OP is a missed base appeal (the BR misses 1st base). The BR did not "miss" 1st base. A base must be acquired (passed) before it can be missed. Consider the following.: R3 one out. The batter grounds out for the 2nd out of the inning. R3, thinking there were two outs, heads for (and enters) his dugout on the 3rd base side. Do you: a. Score the run and wait for an appeal on R3 missing the plate, or b. Call R3 out for abandonment? Of course the answer is b. It is not a missed base appeal because the runner never got to the base to begin with. Now take the same play, but this time R3 takes off for home on the ground ball, slides in 1" short of the plate and heads for his dugout, thinking he has touched the plate. What do you do now? The answer is the same thing (call the runner out for abandonment without an appeal), because it is the same rule, and it applies equally whether the runner is 89 feet or one inch from the plate. The only way the run does not score (absent the D ignoring R2 and playing on the BR at 1st for the 3rd out) is for the BR to be called out for desertion (the equivalent of abandonment for a BR who has not reached 1st base). That would be a tough sell when he is still on the baseline.