SoCal Lurker

*Sigh* Another example of whatis wrong with kids' sports . . .

FYI: This is NOT true in LL rules. In LL rules you just skip the spot with no penalty. I believe the PONY rule (or perhaps it was a local PONY rule) was that if a player leaves (rather than injury), if Mgr told the umpire and opposing mgr before the game, just skip; but if mgr did not inform, then an out the first occurance and then just skip -- designed to prevent the last batter in the lineup suddenly having to leave at a critical moment. (As an opposing coach, my general reaction would be to not take the out . . . but the only time I ever saw it as an opposing coach was with the worst player on the other team in the last inning of very close game . . . and I did think the coach/team was in fact trying to pull a fast one and was a team that liked to look for any advantage . . . )

Doesn't have anything to do with pitch counts. In LL majors and below a pitcher cannot return - period. And thank God for that . . . some of those mini-managers would be so into those types of games, especially with pitch counts . . . no reason to let the stud pitcher "waste" four pitches on an intentional walk, swap him out, then swap him back in . . . my head hurts thinking of how some of the LL managers I've seen might use that . . .

You could have protested. Rule misinterpretation that an appeal could happen with a dead ball. And it should be a winner. Would it? The appel was rejected, so there is no out to reverse. Time was out, so the runner couldn't advance, nothing to fix there. Effectively, what the umpire did was gratuitously provide information to the defense that meant they didn't need to actually appeal. So granting the protest would put the game exactly where it was anyway -- no score, no out, and the defense already knowing that there was no point in doing a proper appeal. I confess to not being an expert on baseball protests, but I thought they would only be granted if they would change something -- seems like this is just an umpire mistake that can't be fixed.

And you're exoecting coaches to understand that?!?! Abuse of statistics to make misleading arguments is as much the American passtime as baseball . . . .

Somewhat of an aside: When is a bunt a bunt? The ball was popped up over the pitcher, and is described as high enough that he just stood there waiting for someone else to get it. That sounds (without being there, of course) that there was some sort of swing though it started from a bunt position. So, when (if ever) can what starts out looking like a bunt stop being a bunt and become a fly ball on which IFF would apply?

Thx all.

Seems to me that what went into the rule is something like this. We don't want kids leaving early. We're playing for fun and to teach, so we don't want to make a cheap out. So we make them go back. The rule (perhaps unrealistically) presumes that coaches aren't coacning players to cheat and that, therefore, a player leaving early has done so inadvertently. And that seems to be pretty accurate -- I've never heard of an epidemic of players leaving early in LL.

A local LL baseball tournament believed that LL rules prohibited parents from talking to players on the field. "Back up Johnny, he's the clean up hitter!" or some such was considered valid reason to eject the parent from the park, (That, of course, is not actually the LL rule.)

Thx all! The responses give me what I was looking for in info . . . for the moment, kids and reffing soccer takes up the time I have available, but in the next few years, I'm likely to take the plunge -- until then, I'll keep lurking . . . baseball was never my game (though I umped a year of LL minors as a teenager (I think they paid $3.50 per game ....) -- which was much less pleasant than being a teen soccer ref), but my son deeply loves baseball, and I have found myself enjoying the game more and more as I watch him -- and becoming intrigued by the rules along the way

As some may know from my posts, I'm a soccer referee and a baseball dad who likes to understand the rules. Now is not the time for me, but I sometimes ponder umpiring at a time when my life gets less chaotic. (Shh. Don't tell my wife . . . ) If I do, I'll most likely volunteer for the less affluent LL's in the area. If I do, what am I really looking at for an initial outlay for equipment? (I'm 6'4" -- is that going to make it harder/more expensive to get equipment?) Just wondering.

I went to a sports doc a few years ago, who sent me to a physical therapist. Go get real advice. But my experience is that the best friends for an achilies issues are (1) rest, (2) ice, and (3) proper strecthing (which a PT can teach). I occaisonally get flare ups (in one now), and they really don't go away without resting from the things that irritate the achielies. (BTW, it is also my understanding that ibuprofin, etc., won't really help -- it can dull the pain, but because the tendon issue is not a swelling issue, it really doesn't help with the core problem.

Definitely a pet peeve of mine in kiddie ball.F3, F4, F6, F5 running to and standing on the base as a runner is trying to round the bag. Got to call OBS on these kids so they'll learn. I've noticed in quite a bit with F5 when the ball is in the outfield -- and what looks like calculated to interfere with the baserunner. My cynical mind thinks there are idiot coaches who have lost the point of it all who are teaching players that they can get away with this in one ump games where the U cannot possibly see it happen.

suspension lifted http://www.ocregister.com/articles/league-605864-little-beach.html

I agree. I wonder what rule they were basing the one run scoring. Seems like they would have allowed both or none (depending on what the logic was, or what rule they messed up on). Here's my theory. Unfortunately, you have to start by assuming we've got 2 umpires who just don't know the rules. So, they have 2nd and 3rd, so, BR reached 1st, and was out for missing 2nd, so all runners get to advance one base? I know it's a stretch..and it's sad to think 2 umpires consulted and came up with an answer based on something along these lines. I'd bet they got cofused on how the time rule works, and were using the time the base was missed instead of the time the appeal was made. (I'd even go so far as to suspect that one of the two was pretty sure that this was wrong, but the other guy was so insistent that he let it go and assumed the insistent guy actually knew the rule . . . )

Thx Umpstu. In case anyone stumbles across this with the same question, I'm going to add what I discovered from my searches. NOCSAE test is apparently done at 68 mph. Rawlings (apparently alone among the helmet manufactures so far) has started doing its helmets in an mph rated scale, and looks like doing the same NOCSAE test at the higher speed. They offer a 100 mph (which is used in the pros), a 90 mph (which they refer to as HS/college), and an 80 mph (which they refer to as HS). And, of course, the costs go up with the mph rating.

I know this is an umpire board, but was hoping someone on here might have some wisdom to share or good sources to recommend. My son is 13, playing travel ball, and needs a new helmet. Is there any good info out there somewhere about safety ratings on helmets? (I figure he's more likely to use his head than his arm to make a living some day . . . .)

Thsi is deeply sad. As a baseball dad (my son is is 13, moving from PONY to a not-too-serious travel team right now), I gotta say I really appreiate it when I see the umpires who actually know what they are doing and who put in the effort. I try to say thank you to those guys after the game -- but it's not always possible. When you do a kids game, and know what you're doing, know that there are a lot of dads out there like me who really appreciate what you're doing -- even if you don't hear about it.

Why did you EJ him? and why did you then not do the paperwork? I ejected him because at the moment, I considered it USC, more than MC. After I spoke with the varsity coach, I thought I might have been a little severe. So by not doing the paperwork, there would be no formal punishment. It was a HTBT, and it is possible I over-reacted. I might do the same thing again if it were to happen again. I'd respectfully suggest this is a horrifically bad idea. Either eject or don't -- but if you eject, follow through. When you don't, you encourage the coach to beg the next ump to toss one of his players to not submit the paperwork. I'd bet dollars to donuts your assignor would blow a gasket knowing you were doing this.

When does he lose the right to run to first? When he enters the dugout?

I'd actually like to see how they did the study. The article says that the study, which used MLB data, did not find the discriminatory effect in games with the cameras to monitor the strike zone. But article doesn't say how they evaluated the calls or made the determination that pitchers altered their pitching when the umpire was a different race or ethnicity -- which they found by evaluating games without the cameras. (Alas, the link to the study took me to a site that needed an actual password to get on to.)

I'm not arguing to protect the HC. My only point is that sometimes ratcheting up the immediate consequences makies it harder -- especially on newbies -- to do what needs to be done. T'would be much better to have real consequences after the fact -- auto suspension, extra suspension if abusing a youth ump, etc. But I take your point that umpires don't make the rules. So much of this is how a league sets expectations and enforces them.

The problem I see in the real world is that this rule makes it harder not easier for that rookie ump to toss the assistant coach. Now instead of just tossing the horses behind, he has to toss the nice, polite gentleman, too. If the real issue is too many assistant coaches permits them to be abusive, limit the team to to three coaches -- and require one to be in the dugout. That means if an assistant gets tossed, the team only has one base coach, so there is some direct impact.

Really?! How about: Ground ball hits 3B, 1B or pitching plate and rolls back Line drive off the pitcher settles in the infield Soft pop fly that lands between fielders One hop line drive at any infielder that is nocked down but not immediately controlled Diving stop brings keeps ball in infield, but not controlled ... lots of possibilities -- but none change the fact that the OP is a FC

I don't know any facts on what happened here. But I do know it is common for someone who has an achillies snap to *think* something hit them, as the instant pain/snap seems inexplicable otherwise. But if it actually snapped, it's hard to believe he did not get surgery for several months.