How many runs score?

[Rags11]

Fellas:

Heard of the following situation that happened during the HS playoffs .

FED Rules: Bases loaded, 2 outs. HR clears fence. BR advances to first base, R3 advances home. R1 & R2 abandon to celebrate before touching their advance bases.

How many runs score? Can't find an exact case play, but if a runner forced to advance is put out, prior to touching his advance base, no runs score.

Is this correct, or am I having a brain fart?

AR

[BrianC14]

Fellas:

Heard of the following situation that happened during the HS playoffs .

FED Rules: Bases loaded, 2 outs. HR clears fence. BR advances to first base, R3 advances home. R1 & R2 abandon to celebrate before touching their advance bases.

How many runs score? Can't find an exact case play, but if a runner forced to advance is put out, prior to touching his advance base, no runs score.

Is this correct, or am I having a brain fart?

AR

Hmmm... so long as defense doesn't leave the field, the ball would have to be put back into play...

but technically, you're correct about the force out.

[Jboval]

Don't have a FED book handy, but I do know that if your OP is a description of the winning runs being scored in the last half of the inning by the home team, then the LL book says 1. The game ends the moment the winning run is scored

2. In the case of a game winning home run, all runs are ALLOWED to score, however, if all bases are not touched, then see #1.

[treedog24]

1 run scores, since F1 and F2 left the base path they would be considered out and BR can't score since he would at some point pass the other two to get home. I hope the game was tied otherwise you should still be playing. The BR has just hit a fence clearing single.

Using OBR, remember in 2000 when the Mets hit a walk off but the BR only touch first before being mobbed? Same thing applies, all the runner must touch the bases in order for the HR to count.

[mstaylor]

This from the MLBUM:

If the home team scores the winning run in its half of the ninth inning (or its half of an extra

inning after a tie), the game ends immediately when the winning run is scored. EXCEPTION: If

the last batter in a game hits a home run out of the playing field, the batter-runner and all runners

on base are permitted to score, in accordance with base-running rules, and the game ends when

the batter-runner touches home plate. (See Official Baseball Rule 4.11©.)

Official Baseball Rule 4.09(B) provides that when the winning run is scored in the last halfinning

of a regulation game (or in the last half of an extra inning) as the result of a base on balls,

hit batter or any other play with the bases full that forces the runner on third to advance, the

umpire shall not declare the game ended until the runner forced to advance from third has

touched home base and the batter-runner has touched first base. EXCEPTION: If fans rush onto

the field and physically prevent the runner from touching home plate or prevent the batter-runner

from touching first base, the umpire shall award the runner the base because of obstruction by

the fans.

If the batter hits a home run out of the playing field to win the game in the last half of the ninth

or an extra inning but is called out for passing a preceding runner, the game ends immediately

when the winning run is scored (provided the winning run touched home plate before the passing

occurred if there were two out).

[Umpire in Chief]

Based on MST's post I'd just have the one run scoring.

[mstaylor]

I read it as two outs, none. The passing that they quote is not a force so the one run scores but with a runner being called out for not advancing that is a force. A walk-off award is different, just the R3 and BR needs to touch.

Edited May 28, 2009 by mstaylor

[Mr Umpire]

This is a timing play.

If R1 and/or R2 and/or BR abandon BEFORE R3 touches HP, then here comes the next inning if tied. MLBUM covers this play exactly under Appeal/Award section. I believe it is section 5 and is towards the end of the section.

If R1 and/or R2 and/or BR abandon AFTER R3 touches HP, then the run scores and cannot be removed by any appeal.

So, it depends on when the abandonment call is made. And, if there are still 2 or less outs when the offending runner is called out for abandonment, then all trailing runners can still score. They will not be called out for passing a preceding runner b/c that runner is already out for abandonment just like if he was called out on a play but the trailing runner passes his last position.

In this case, 1 run scores if abandonment on either runner is called after R3 touches. And, in case of a HR, BR doesn't even have to touch 1B(I believe) but for a walkoff walk, then BR and R3 have to touch their next base and no one else has to.

[mstaylor]

I stand sort of corrected. B)

From the MLBUM:

Umpires must be alert to time-play situations when a runner abandons his effort to touch the next

base, as demonstrated in the following play:

Play: Bases loaded, two out, score tied in the bottom of the ninth inning. Batter hits a home run

out of the ballpark. Runner on first, thinking the home run automatically wins the game, leaves

the baseline and heads toward the dugout. The runner on first is declared out before the runner

from third reaches home plate. Other runners continue around the bases and eventually touch

home.

Ruling: No runs score; the third out was made before the runner from third touched home plate.

Game continues in the top of the tenth inning with the score still tied. NOTE: If there were less

than two out, the game would end the moment the winning run touched home plate. See also

Official Baseball Rules 4.09( and 4.11©.

[Umpire in Chief]

I for one would not consider him as abandoning his base running responsibilities until the BR reaches 1st and R3 crosses the plate. Remember the runner has the ability to determine his path to the next base -- so if it takes him to just outside the stoop of the dugout then all is good.:agasp_:B)

[Mr Umpire]

While I agree to try not to call the out for abandonment, sometimes an umpire is forced to make that call.

For instance:

R1 leaves base path. BR is about to touch 2B. You have to make one of 2 calls. Call R1 out for abandonment or call BR out for passing a preceding runner. This is a play which is the wrong end on both ends. So, I will call the out for abandonment before I call the "passing" out. Of course, if I'm passing out, then who cares.B)

I just hope R3 has touched before any of this occurs and I don't have to call anything.

[Umpire in Chief]

I just hope R3 has touched before any of this occurs and I don't have to call anything.

Exactly, So many times I think, 'Okay kid lets not do anything stupid so we can just get out of this.'

[treedog24]

Of course if the winning run is on 3rd you can wait for him to score then let the Official Scorer figure it out.:shrug: