Well, my first quasi ejection...

[willv28]

Minors game. We've been having all kinds of issues this season with the minors. It was my first minors game as well. The minors teams in the local towns changing things, rules, you name it they're never the same in consecutive games even in the same town and the rules are not remotely close to what was written and agreed to amongst the 4 towns that play each other. No one ever knows what's going on, this is one of those moments.

Top 1st inning, batter gets hit, visiting coach says "You ok, just stay in there, keep batting". I had called the hit by pitch, and it was something they weren't playing by. I couldn't believe it. Bottom 1st, catcher can't catch, pitcher can't pitch, but throws hard for minors. Hit two batters, the second one getting hit two pitches in a row because well, he "stayed in there" but he's understandably crying.

So, before things got out of hand, and I'm pissed for three reasons, because I've been hit just about everywhere I can get hit already, there's no punishment for hitting a batter and someone's going to get seriously hurt. I'm not having that on me. The visiting team was full of way bigger kids than the home team. So I call "TIME", "THAT'S ENOUGH, this batter will take his base, and all hit batters will take their base, this is unacceptable, it will NOT continue!", fully prepared to stop the game. The kid had little control, and if another player was hit, I would have had instructed the coach that if you're not going to give me a pitcher that can pitch and a catcher that will at least try to put a glove on the ball I'm stopping the game. I was concerned for both sides for any subsequent hit by pitches.

Well, I thought that was the end of it. Home team lady parent sitting not far from home plate starts saying things. She was on the phone and apparently with her husband who coaches a majors team in town or is close friends with the coach, or something like that, and she is flipping through a LL rule book. She said "Rule says that after 3 hit batters the pitcher must to be removed." I said, "Been, dealt with, I've never heard of that, can't justify that at this point anyway." Then she continues on sawing at me while I'm about to get in for the next inning, and is talking to this person on the phone and she is getting upset by the information being fed to her and I say "I'm not going to argue with out about this, stop" then she tells the person she's on the phone with as I'm walking away "He says he's not going to talk to me." in a snotty voice. Then she continues, "How many batters are you going to allowed to be hit anyway?" In short she had been trying to insult my integrity by telling me how it should be. Then I say, "you're done", turn to coach and tell him to deal with it and I want her removed. I accept them trying to smooth it over, I never said, 'nor can I say that they have to leave the park, I just said I wanted her dealt with and removed (maybe a strong word). She doesn't take their offer, pulls her kid off the field and leaves. But whatever, she was attempting to make me look like a fool.

Good thing I stopped it, perfect game from there on out, two batters got hit the rest of the game by different pitchers and took their bases. Everyone had a good time from there on out.

Either the lady or the person she was talking to calls the league president and he shows up. Never said anything to me. Just talked to both coaches about the "house rules".

My chief comes after that game because he was doing the next game and I tell him about everything that happened. Says I handled it well from what I said. League president comes over and apologizes about everything that happened and for the lady. We have a little chat about the issues facing the minors. Chief prefers us not to do Minors games if that's how they're going to be. But my brother in law who also umpires helps the home team that was playing and had said before he was going to do them, and it's better if I just do them.

Funny part was that half the reason the lady was being a pain (according to sources) was because she thought that I thought the pitchers were hitting batters on purpose. Which wasn't true. I was just putting things where they had to be if the game was going to continue. When I said "that's enough, this player and all players will take their bases". I was talking about their scenario of keeping them in when hit. Not something a parent sitting there had a right to get an explanation about.

Probabl-i should have made that first batter take their base regardless of their "rule"... That's the only thing I'm upset about at this point and none of that would've happened if I had.

Edited May 16, 2009 by willv28

[Mr Umpire]

Tough situation we get put in sometimes.

I have only 1 question. Is this "Batter keep batting" rule in writing? If it is not, then do not listen to it. If they approach you saying it is a rule, then they better be prepared to show it in writing. They are not allowed to overwrite any rules unless they have it in writing and agreed upon. If they don't, then don't allow it. You should have put the first batter on but live and learn.

This is a safety issue and that is why you should make them show it in writing and keep that writing. Then, you can show that it is on the park(or whoever) if a kid gets hurt.

Next time, do not acknowledge the parent if they are going to be argumentative. I may tell them a quick reply of why I just called something if there is confusion but I will not go into length nor acknowledge anymore from them about it. I had 1 parent come yelling at me "The ball was fair. It hit chalk." I told him "No, that was all dirt." And, that was all I said and all I heard.

If a parent is being a pain, go to the coach. Tell him, if they don't do something about the parent, you will start ejecting coaches. Then, the ejected coach can take that parent with them to the parking lot. They get the hint real quick before one gets ejected. And, if any of them say "He won't listen to us", then eject that coach and let him try to do it this time.

Usually, it is best to just ignore the parents altogether. Don't even give them the first reply. If they say "I am so and so", then have them take it up with the coaches and if the coaches acknowledge who they are, then you may have to deal with them. Until you have verification of who they are, don't acknowledge their existence.

[willv28]

Usually I do ignore the parents. I didn't really say anything to her other than a phrase or two, and the first was just how many batters were hit and it was too complicated to explain. I wasn't trying to get into anything with her she just got forceful and she was right there by the plate area between where the backdrop ends and the dugout. She was upset she wasn't getting her way and trying to make me look like a fool, so I made an immediate decision she was done, but with what she did I had to get in my "you're done" in there. Then I got the coaches to deal with it.

It would have gone even better if it wasn't for the prior confusions. I wasn't even doing those games but I was watching them. I was already at a point of having enough. It's hard to take control when everyone is so incompetent and no one else cares to follow the rules. It's a long tradition of the towns doing "whatever". First time regular umpires have done the games. It was an awkward situation because it wasn't about safe/out, good/call bad call.

[mstaylor]

Is this league LL sactioned or some local version of youth ball? If it is LL they can't do a lot of what they are doing without getting LL approval. If it is some independant league they still need a written, agreed upon set of rules. They can't just make it up as they go along. If they come up with something that isn't written then it isn't a rule, period.

[moblue]

Willv, if these towns are doing "whatever" and bringing in actual umpires to call the games, you can bet next season there will be a whole list of rules made up to counteract the ones they don't like. I can tell you two off the top of my head a league near me came up with after I made them go by the book when I called games.

[willv28]

Willv, if these towns are doing "whatever" and bringing in actual umpires to call the games, you can bet next season there will be a whole list of rules made up to counteract the ones they don't like. I can tell you two off the top of my head a league near me came up with after I made them go by the book when I called games.

They're not really bringing in regular umpires. We're just doing them because we have the luxury to. The other towns you never know it might be a guy that's been doing just minors games for years or it'll be like a 12 year old, parent or something.

All 4 towns have a coach pitch division. The purpose of the minors is to get them ready, instead they treat them like babies. We did the games because we want them to get exposed to the rules. We don't over-call the rules, but let them see the important ones. Otherwise they see nothing at all to get them ready. I would not do them but there's going to be a even bigger explosion if the coach does them, he's regular umpire but his nephew is on the team. We've had that issue already.

Is this league LL sactioned or some local version of youth ball? If it is LL they can't do a lot of what they are doing without getting LL approval. If it is some independant league they still need a written, agreed upon set of rules. They can't just make it up as they go along. If they come up with something that isn't written then it isn't a rule, period.

mstaylor, yes it's sanctioned LL. In 2006 4 towns agreed upon a set of written "house rules" that were to be used in all games. I could post them, there's 17 of them, many of them are not the umpire's responsibility. Some of them are understandable. It never really was of importance to them they just had them and quickly every town was different again and home coaches think they call the shots and can decide what rules they will and won't use or make something up. Part of their reasoning is, "unevenness of teams from town to town". Like today the kids on the away team looked more like majors players and the home team was very young.

The rules have led to so much confusion. Like a game between the two in town teams I was watching. Everyone believed there was a no sliding rule. That led to a runner plowing over an 8 year old catcher trying to score and is ruled safe by the umpire.

I'm trying to stop this stuff from happening... I had to stop this today. That lady was lucky I did something if this was in the visiting park that "rule" would have stuck around.

[willv28]

Here are the alleged "Unified Playing Rules" they violate, alter, add to or ignore many of them.

Unified Minor League Playing Rules

Basic Philosophy:

We should not emphasize winning. It serves no purpose to let the kids run wild advancing on the weakness of an opponent just to run up the score. Both teams will learn more by allowing the kids to play all of the different positions and keeping the game honest. Remember that kids develop at different rates. If they are pegged as the “right fielder,” they will most likely become discouraged and quit the sport before their potential is know.

1.Fans heckling players, coaches or umpires must be dealt with by team managers and or umpires. If the fan continues to act inappropriately, play must be suspended until that fan leaves the grounds.

2.No arguing calls. All judgment calls are final. Questions regarding interpretations should involve team managers and umpire only. Remember – our goal is to get the call right.

3.Games start at 5:30.

4.Home teams will supply the umpire. If umpires are unavailable, visiting teams may be asked for assistance.

5.Weekday games: new inning cannot be started after 7:00.

6.Weekend games: Maximum length of a weekend game is 2 hours. New inning cannot be started 90 minutes after the first pitch.

7.Player can only sit out 2 defensive innings per game. Players should be moved to different positions during each game. Players should not be designated a position for the entire game. All players should be allowed to play all positions during the course of the season.

8.Little League pitching rules apply with two exceptions

a.Pitcher must be removed after hitting 3rd batter of the game.

b.Pitchers should attempt to pitch from the 46’ mound. If a younger/smaller player without overpowering velocity is struggling from 46’ he may move up to the softball rubber (40’) provided both managers agree. Safety of batters and pitchers should be the deciding factor

9.3-6-9 innings. 3 outs, 6 runs, or 9 batters – whichever comes first.

10.Continuous batting order, open substitution.

11.Each team may place ten players on the field for defense.* The tenth player must play an outfield position.

12.No walks are allowed. If batter is issued 4 balls by Minor League pitcher, a Coach from his team will step in to pitch. Batter retains strike count from the Minor League Pitcher and is out on 3rd called strike.

13.If the batter is hit by the Coach the batter takes first base.

14.No Stealing. No advancing on past balls.

15.No Bunting

16.Runners can only advance 1 base on an error.

17.No infield fly rule in effect

Edited May 16, 2009 by willv28
Yup.

[therefump]

I think Mr. Umpire put it best:

#1 is the safety issue. I've never done a league where it's OK to get HBP and stay in the box.

#2 Say as little if nothing at all to parents. I have worked with a partner who has thought he's Mr. Umpire Supreme and works the crowd like he's running for mayor or something. There have been more than a few times where he's gotten into heated arguments with parents when things don't go their way. Keep it professional and keep it with the rule book.

Nobody can argue with you if you're using the rule book!

BTW, I took 2 pitches today in the thigh because of the catcher. I empathize. Also, he kept turning his head. The boy is going to take one in the throat/neck one of these days (this was 7/8th graders). What are these coaches teaching?:wow:

[Mr Umpire]

Mr. Umpire Supreme

Now, that might be my next screen name. Hmmmmmmmmmm....UIC, screen name change request here.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Mr Umpire

[willv28]

I think Mr. Umpire put it best:

#1 is the safety issue. I've never done a league where it's OK to get HBP and stay in the box.

#2 Say as little if nothing at all to parents. I have worked with a partner who has thought he's Mr. Umpire Supreme and works the crowd like he's running for mayor or something. There have been more than a few times where he's gotten into heated arguments with parents when things don't go their way. Keep it professional and keep it with the rule book.

Nobody can argue with you if you're using the rule book!

BTW, I took 2 pitches today in the thigh because of the catcher. I empathize. Also, he kept turning his head. The boy is going to take one in the throat/neck one of these days (this was 7/8th graders). What are these coaches teaching?

Oh yeah, I learned a lot today. I'm usually good about blocking everyone out. I have had no quarrels with people wanting to understand, it is more "laid back". So you know it was all her if I had to have her removed.

I do know now I will not tolerate any rules changes that aren't in their document. I know I can't force them to play by the regular rule book AND completely ignore their written changes. But I was under the impression it doesn't matter what I thought if they decide it at the game or not if that was agreed to then it was agreed to.

I'm just glad I didn't chicken out. My brother in law said "Someone must have lit a fire under him. I've never seen him with such a pair before."

[Mr Umpire]

Oh yeah, I learned a lot today. I'm usually good about blocking everyone out. I have had no quarrels with people wanting to understand, it is more "laid back". So you know it was all her if I had to have her removed.

I do know now I will not tolerate any rules changes that aren't in their document. I know I can't force them to play by the regular rule book AND completely ignore their written changes. But I was under the impression it doesn't matter what I thought if they decide it at the game or not if that was agreed to then it was agreed to.

I'm just glad I didn't chicken out. My brother in law said "Someone must have lit a fire under him. I've never seen him with such a pair before."

Generally, only ground rules are where it has to be agreed to if not already stated or written. Things like how to handle muddy area off in foul territory should the ball find its way there or something kind of out of the ordinary.

When it comes to overwriting rules in the book, that better be in writing. I do not like the idea of them agreeing to it at game time. All they have to do is say "I never agreed to that" or "I never heard that during the plate meeting". Who will support you then b/c there are only 4(or 3 if solo) at the plate. No other witnesses. It is a liability issue. If they have it in writing, they are liable. If they don't, the umpire is liable and I am not going to have an injury which I could have prevented.

So, you did it right to change it. But, it should have been changed at the plate meeting. Again, live and learn. You will get to be Mr. Umpire Supreme one day. I'll work on getting more on this post if necessary later.

[therefump]

Now, that might be my next screen name. Hmmmmmmmmmm....UIC, screen name change request here.

Go for it, all of the name and none of the glory.:shrug:

[therefump]

I'm just glad I didn't chicken out. My brother in law said "Someone must have lit a fire under him. I've never seen him with such a pair before."

Hey, hold your head high. You DID your job today. What more can anyone ask for! :shrug:

[willv28]

Hey, hold your head high. You DID your job today. What more can anyone ask for!

Thanks guys. The other issue is we're discouraged from regular plate meeting during "regular season". So all I do is have a chat with the coaches, get the balls and we begin. I could ask them whatever and I'm sure to get a different answer or they'll forget to say something. What you guys are saying is how I wanted it. I kinda couldn't figure out what to do until something happened. Then I went to town. Now I'm ready for next time.

Funny thing is there's NO problems at the majors. Everything goes smoothly, so you know it's those rules.

[Mr Umpire]

I'm just glad I didn't chicken out. My brother in law said "Someone must have lit a fire under him. I've never seen him with such a pair before."

Keep umpiring. You will find many more situations to be the bad guy in. You will learn more and more how to stand your ground and tell those rats "Back, I say!!! Back!!!"

[willv28]

Well, at this point I do feel a tad bad it had to happen but comfortable in doing it. I know she just wanted to help. But when I told her I wasn't going to argue, she's the one to decide to put it over the top. It's not like I said anything to her to make her do that. I hardly said anything, typically it's an ok thing to let the parent know what's going on this sort of thing just doesn't happen here. But when she thought she had better ideas on how to handle it and getting fed info. It was when I didn't take her advice that I had to have her removed.

[mstaylor]

If you go back and they want to throw something new, ask them if they sent it to LL for a waiver. If they prove a waiver exception then ignor it.

[catoblue]

Somehow, I can't see Williamsport EVER approving a "house rule" that keeps a batter in the box after HBP!

In LL, there are certain rules that can be tinkered with at the local level, but the majority of the rules can not. If this really is "Minors Baseball" then the local league has waaay overstepped their their authority with most of their "house rules".

[willv28]

Somehow, I can't see Williamsport EVER approving a "house rule" that keeps a batter in the box after HBP!

In LL, there are certain rules that can be tinkered with at the local level, but the majority of the rules can not. If this really is "Minors Baseball" then the local league has waaay overstepped their their authority with most of their "house rules".

Exactly. At first I wasn't going to deal with it, because I was peeved off enough at the minors situation. Then once I got into the bottom of the 1st I felt I had figured out a solution and that was to tell them what was what. See, the issue is the only team that's having a problem is the one that's taking the coaching and the games seriously, maybe too seriously.

[mstaylor]

Another thing to remember, when faced with a situation, either a house rule that you know is wrong or a coach questioning your call, NEVER lose your cool. Keep an even keel and explain yourself and how you are going to handle a situation. If you lose your temper then you can look like the aggresser and that is bad. Game management is a personal thing depending on your personality, experience and knowledge. I assure you that the way I handle coaches today is way different than 36 yrs ago when I started.

I had a coach screaming at my partner Saturday on a time limit despute. I stepped in, defused the situation kept the coach from being ejected.

[therefump]

I had a coach screaming at my partner Saturday on a time limit despute. I stepped in, defused the situation kept the coach from being ejected.

So how exactly did you handle it? BTW, I'm not shouting. Just trying to get your attention.

The older I get the more I get quiet when talking with a coach. If he goes up (in volume, I go down in volume). If he becomes animated (e.g. waving arms, etc.) then I fold my arms and remain very still.

I'm told this technique can backfire because some people get pissed off easily when they're not getting your goat (so to speak). However, I've been suprized at how the whole tone gets set by how I talk with the coach (notice I didn't say "to the coach"). Let 'em vent. Don't let 'em repeat.

[mstaylor]

I handled it by saying he was too far away to have any idea what he was talking about and if my PU says it went off, then that's the call. Not only was he my partner on the game, I was acting as UIC while the real UIC was at another field.