Almost had a clearance sale

[Paperipper17]

First off, it's good to be back lol. Had about 60 games so far this spring, but classes have had me running ragged and I've had no time to post.

18u this morning, pretty good ball. A lot of JV players and varsity backups. Top 3, no outs, R1. Home F2 makes a snap throw to first after a pitch. Runner goes in standing up, but F3 starts trying to shove him off the base. I kill it immediately and tell him I don't want to see that again. The two exchange words under their breath, but nothing I could hear. Next pitch, another snap throw, this time the runner dives and beats the play by a full second. F3 catches the throw, knees R1 in the head, and punches him in the ribs, hard, with his glove hand. So, he's gone. No grumbles from the stands, F3 didn't even say anything, just nodded and left.

Next inning, VT at bat again, my partner starts hearing gripes about his zone (FWIW, while I thought he had a great zone. Maybe HT was just mad they were down by eight.). Finally, he issues a warning to the dugout. As soon as he turns around, we hear "You're horses***!"

My partner spins back around and asks who said it. Turns out it was a player's older brother standing right next to the dugout. My partner calls over Home HC (who, for the record, hasn't made a peep all game) and warns him that if he can't control his fans, he's gone. He hadn't even finished his sentence when the older brother yells, "F*** you, Blue!" So, my partner tossed HC and told him to take the fan with him.

Now we have a holy mess. Parents are screaming, coaches, including the one who just got tossed, are trying to cool everyone down, and in the midst of it all I see the fan's little brother take a step out of the dugout and yell "You both f****** suck!" Another whoosh.

After that it all calmed down. What was funny to me is I had two pretty close calls the next inning, both going against HT. On a steal at third, the throw beat the runner but F5 missed the tag. I called him safe, and the stands started exploding again, but F5 yelled "Hey! I didn't tag him!" And in the bottom half, for the third out, the throw pulled F3 off, but he got the tag on the B/R's shoulder right before he touched first. Got an out on the tag. The fans down the line started yelling, so the kid yelled "He got me! Calm down!" Seemed like the remaining players were more interested in just playing ball than the guys we tossed.

Great to be back on the boards, hope everyone's season is going well!

[yawetag]

My partner calls over Home HC (who, for the record, hasn't made a peep all game) and warns him that if he can't control his fans, he's gone. He hadn't even finished his sentence when the older brother yells, "F*** you, Blue!" So, my partner tossed HC and told him to take the fan with him.

I find this ejection a bit questionable. PU didn't get a chance to finish telling the HC to keep his fans under control, and he's ejecting him for it? Seems a bit quick. In this situation, I'm finishing my statement to HC and giving him the chance to actually talk to the older brother before sending HC home.

[mstaylor]

I agree he was quick on the manager, he's has to give him a chance to handle the situation. I don't think you should hold the coach responsible for his fans, that is game management's problem. Dixie does put it on the coach, but most systems don't. If worse comes to worse, stop the game until the knucklehead leaves. The player, no problem, he is all yours to dump.

[Paperipper17]

I agree with you both, and I told my partner after the game that, while I wasn't faulting him because I haven't yet been in that situation, I would have given HC a chance to handle it before tossing him. That's how our UIC tells us to handle fans in extreme cases like that, where they're using extreme language or getting violent. According to the site director, it was the third time the guy's been made to leave the park (which of course made me ask why they still let him in).

[yawetag]

I agree he was quick on the manager, he's has to give him a chance to handle the situation. I don't think you should hold the coach responsible for his fans, that is game management's problem. Dixie does put it on the coach, but most systems don't. If worse comes to worse, stop the game until the knucklehead leaves. The player, no problem, he is all yours to dump.

Good point, Mike. In most situations, there should be administration at the game apart from the HC.

[mstaylor]

I just find it hard to put it on the coach to control his fans. He is trying to run a team, he doesn't have time to deal with knucklehead fans. Now if he is inciting the fans then certainly, go get him. The first year I managed my son at Pony I had some parents get on an umpire for a call he got exactly right. I went out just get them off him and told him I completely agreed with him. I went straight to my parents and told them to root for their kids and leave the umpire to me. They tried to argue with me and told them to shut their #&%^#$ mouths and walked away. Not my best moment in parent relations but they shutup.

[Guest]

We get situations like this a lot in Ontario, because many tournament conveners are just coaches of other ages volun-told by the host to supervise (which amounts to handing umpires money and baseballs before the game) and sometimes, because they feel it necessary, overseeing the plate conference. As a result, you get many tournaments putting in their rules "the manager or manager designate of each team is responsible for their conduct of their players, coaches, and fans at all times." or something to that effect. Average Joe umpire reads this, doesn't like what he's hearing from the crowd, and jacks the manager. Wonderful.

You really shouldn't be ejecting a manager because his parents / fans are giving you a hard time.

Now, on the other hand, a manager is attempting to incite his fans, then he goes (faster than a 16 year old getting his first lap-dance). Inciting the crowd can be as simple as a base coach turning to a bleacher and going "man, are these guys awful or what?" or as blatant as a manager coming out to argue a call and loudly going "you mean to say that our team and all those people over there are wrong, but you're right?" while gesturing at them / in their direction.

If you do establish that a fan needs to be removed from the ballpark and there is an issue with his removal that could create turmoil in the game (ie players more focused on watching this ass-clown in the stands than the play) clear the field. Wait behind the pitcher's mound (because, factoring in foul territory, that's a long way to throw something at you). If junior still won't take a hike, inform whichever team he belongs to that if a safe playing environment is not re-established, the game will be suspended and a report forwarded to the league (and by that, you politely mean, their team will forfeit). Don't go to their dugout to do this, call over the manager...it puts you within firing range.

Another thing I want to touch on here - ripper - when your partner shot at the dugout "OK who was it?" what were you doing?

Not trying to belittle you or make an example of you, but PU trying to find "that guy" in a bench where they're brave enough to yell something at you, but too chicken to admit it was them is one of the hardest things to do, especially when the idiot of a manager doesn't realize what's going on, and come out to take the bullet.

In my experiences with this, BU has stood around watching the show, and the end result is either the manager getting ejected because PU can't figure out whose chirping, or the wrong player getting tossed. Contrary to what anyone ever tells you, you cannot ever just eject someone at random.

The point I'm trying to make here is that BU should be trying to help PU out in this situation. Heck, if you know who it is, and PU clearly doesn't, make the ejection yourself. But please please please don't just stand there and watch.

[SnareDrum]

In our main City League, it's written in the adapted rules under Sportsmanship, that each head coach is responsible for the behavior of their fans (games at mainly neutral sites). If there's a problem, the umpire is supposed to request that coach to talk to his fans... and give him a chance to tone things down. If the fans are still a problem, they leave it to the umpires to decide who goes to the parking lot, but if a fan gets tossed, the manager will likely follow especially if he made little or no effort to cooperate. I think their goal is to help prevent an escalating "back and forth" between fans and umpires. We also inform the coaches of this rule at the pre-game coin-flip. Since most of these fans are parents and the coach knows them pretty well, we have very few problems.

Last year, I did toss a couple of fans, but only one coach. In one instance, the coach really tried to get the guy to knock it off, even threatened to bench his kid. Fan didn't last too long after that. In the other, the coach said he wasn't going to tell the fan anything (fan turned out to be a sponsor), and they were both gone within a few minutes. Both fans had basically decided that loud, salty language directed personally at the umpires had become appropriate.

(Edit: The league rule basically allows the ejection of a fan only after we've requested that a coach intervene, or if the fan's conduct deems an immediate EJ. Outside of this league, I generally put the fans on mute unless they really go off the chain.)

[Paperipper17]

Another thing I want to touch on here - ripper - when your partner shot at the dugout "OK who was it?" what were you doing?

Not trying to belittle you or make an example of you, but PU trying to find "that guy" in a bench where they're brave enough to yell something at you, but too chicken to admit it was them is one of the hardest things to do, especially when the idiot of a manager doesn't realize what's going on, and come out to take the bullet.

In my experiences with this, BU has stood around watching the show, and the end result is either the manager getting ejected because PU can't figure out whose chirping, or the wrong player getting tossed. Contrary to what anyone ever tells you, you cannot ever just eject someone at random.

The point I'm trying to make here is that BU should be trying to help PU out in this situation. Heck, if you know who it is, and PU clearly doesn't, make the ejection yourself. But please please please don't just stand there and watch.

Finding out who it was wasn't an issue, as the guy jumped right up and said it was him. I had no idea who it was, as he was on the opposite side of the dugout from me. Since it was a fan and not a player, that's when PU called the coach down. At that point the first base coach asked me "Why didn't he just toss the guy?" and I said "We have to warn the coach before we can eject a fan." As soon as I said that, I saw my partner toss the fan and HC, and I ran to get between the two of them (PU and HC) about halfway down the third base line, because HC tried to follow my partner when he turned to walk away. It was as I was trying to guide HC out the gate that I saw little brother step out and make his proclamation.

I get your point, though. About a year ago I went to watch a game a friend of mine was doing. He ended up tossing one of the HCs, and to make a long story short, the guy and his AC got in his face. BU was standing out in A with his arms folded. Took my buddy a solid two minutes to get the clowns off the field.