New position...

[mstaylor]

I haven't looked at it recently but I would highly suggest leaving it alone. The mechanics are written the way they are because they work. Carl's BRD is an excellent piece of work that I have referenced many times. When Carl starts into mechanics, I pay him no attention. Carl and I have locked horns many times over the years.

The reason you go back to B in a first to third is because the most likely play is going to be a double play and the hard call is usually at first. Staying in C only gives you a slightly better look at the unlikely throw behind the runner. I would rather be in the better position for the likely play.

I am in C with runners on first and second or second only. If they F5 holds a R3 only I may stay in C but any other time I am in B.

[LMSANS]

I worked a DH with my association's mechanics chief yesterday. R1, R3 situation, I go to B. He discreetly points to me and then to C. After the game his only coment was that is the way the Fed wants it. :BD:

[Tyennie]

Let me preface this post by telling Michael that I took the liberty of sending his message along to Carl. The following is his response via my home email address.

Thane:

Please post this in reply:

It's always fun to discuss mechanics with amateurs like Michael. They are so sure of themselves, so eager to dismiss the more experienced clinicians. Mike, our mechanics are not "written the way they are because the work" but because baseball is the most conservative of sports. Baseball is to sports as Sen. Orin Hatch is to politics: out of step with the 21st century. Likely you're too young to remember the days when a three-man crew always put the third-base umpire ahead of or even with the lead runner, leaving the poor first-base umpire to call both ends of a double play while U3 spent the day reading the stock market reports while waiting for a pick-off at third. It took the late umpire Nick Bremigan 30 years to get his system (U3 stays in C with a runner at first) adopted. And I know there are still pockets in this country where dinosaur mechanics roam and poor U1 is overwhelmed by responsibilities.

But in this instance, Mike is the true radical. He is not arguing with me or "my" mechanics. That means his memory of our supposed horn-locking is quite faulty. He's taking issue with Red Book (pro) mechanics. That a professional would go to B with R1/R3 is unthinkable. Not even I do that, though my old friend Jon Bible recommended it as a "possibility." What Mike is confusing is my suggestion that an amateur should go to C with a runner on first only. My reasons: You have a better look at the pickoff on first (if you don't believe that, take a peek at your next game) and in position to look between the runner stealing and the base. (Naturally, those are reasons for U1 to adopt C with runners on the corners as well.) Of course, I've never suggested an umpire go to B with runners at 1st and 2nd or 2nd only. In amateur ball, the steal of third (or double steal of third and second) is an ever-present possibility. Some umpire has gotta be in position to call the play at third, which is where the catcher ALWAYS throws.

Mike, I appreciate your good words for the BRD. But I don't know where you've "referenced it." My market report shows you've never bought the book since Officiating.com began publishing it in 1999! Drop by: http://www.officiating.com. The 2009 version is the best yet, and there have been a lotta rule changes since 1998

Cheers:

Carl Childress

Editor, Officiating.com

carlchildress@officiating.com

[therefump]

I worked a DH with my association's mechanics chief yesterday. R1, R3 situation, I go to B. He discreetly points to me and then to C. After the game his only coment was that is the way the Fed wants it.

....sorry for that outburst. Why would someone in this day and age say "because the FED says it" without an explanation. Am I back in Catholic School again? Seriously, though, if you're new to the officiating side then it might be good to go 'by the book' but if you're comfortable and your instincts are good then go to the best place to make the call.

[LMSANS]

Let me preface this post by telling Michael that I took the liberty of sending his message along to Carl. The following is his response via my home email address.

Thane:

Please post this in reply:

It's always fun to discuss mechanics with amateurs like Michael. They are so sure of themselves, so eager to dismiss the more experienced clinicians. Mike, our mechanics are not "written the way they are because the work" but because baseball is the most conservative of sports. Baseball is to sports as Sen. Orin Hatch is to politics: out of step with the 21st century. Likely you're too young to remember the days when a three-man crew always put the third-base umpire ahead of or even with the lead runner, leaving the poor first-base umpire to call both ends of a double play while U3 spent the day reading the stock market reports while waiting for a pick-off at third. It took the late umpire Nick Bremigan 30 years to get his system (U3 stays in C with a runner at first) adopted. And I know there are still pockets in this country where dinosaur mechanics roam and poor U1 is overwhelmed by responsibilities.

But in this instance, Mike is the true radical. He is not arguing with me or "my" mechanics. That means his memory of our supposed horn-locking is quite faulty. He's taking issue with Red Book (pro) mechanics. That a professional would go to B with R1/R3 is unthinkable. Not even I do that, though my old friend Jon Bible recommended it as a "possibility." What Mike is confusing is my suggestion that an amateur should go to C with a runner on first only. My reasons: You have a better look at the pickoff on first (if you don't believe that, take a peek at your next game) and in position to look between the runner stealing and the base. (Naturally, those are reasons for U1 to adopt C with runners on the corners as well.) Of course, I've never suggested an umpire go to B with runners at 1st and 2nd or 2nd only. In amateur ball, the steal of third (or double steal of third and second) is an ever-present possibility. Some umpire has gotta be in position to call the play at third, which is where the catcher ALWAYS throws.

Mike, I appreciate your good words for the BRD. But I don't know where you've "referenced it." My market report shows you've never bought the book since Officiating.com began publishing it in 1999! Drop by: http://www.officiating.com. The 2009 version is the best yet, and there have been a lotta rule changes since 1998

Cheers:

Carl Childress

Editor, Officiating.com

carlchildress@officiating.com

My copy of the red book says"...the base umpire will position himself in exactly the same manner as with a rnner on 1B only..."

I don't think this has been clarified.

[LMSANS]

....sorry for that outburst. Why would someone in this day and age say "because the FED says it" without an explanation. Am I back in Catholic School again? Seriously, though, if you're new to the officiating side then it might be good to go 'by the book' but if you're comfortable and your instincts are good then go to the best place to make the call.

I didn't mean to imply that he said it this way to shut me down. My association only does high school baseball and softball and follows the Fed guidelines, which is what NJSIAA wants. When I work non-HS ball I follow either the red book or college, depending on the league rules.

[mstaylor]

Let me preface this post by telling Michael that I took the liberty of sending his message along to Carl. The following is his response via my home email address.

Thane:

Please post this in reply:

It's always fun to discuss mechanics with amateurs like Michael. They are so sure of themselves, so eager to dismiss the more experienced clinicians. Mike, our mechanics are not "written the way they are because the work" but because baseball is the most conservative of sports. Baseball is to sports as Sen. Orin Hatch is to politics: out of step with the 21st century. Likely you're too young to remember the days when a three-man crew always put the third-base umpire ahead of or even with the lead runner, leaving the poor first-base umpire to call both ends of a double play while U3 spent the day reading the stock market reports while waiting for a pick-off at third. It took the late umpire Nick Bremigan 30 years to get his system (U3 stays in C with a runner at first) adopted. And I know there are still pockets in this country where dinosaur mechanics roam and poor U1 is overwhelmed by responsibilities.

But in this instance, Mike is the true radical. He is not arguing with me or "my" mechanics. That means his memory of our supposed horn-locking is quite faulty. He's taking issue with Red Book (pro) mechanics. That a professional would go to B with R1/R3 is unthinkable. Not even I do that, though my old friend Jon Bible recommended it as a "possibility." What Mike is confusing is my suggestion that an amateur should go to C with a runner on first only. My reasons: You have a better look at the pickoff on first (if you don't believe that, take a peek at your next game) and in position to look between the runner stealing and the base. (Naturally, those are reasons for U1 to adopt C with runners on the corners as well.) Of course, I've never suggested an umpire go to B with runners at 1st and 2nd or 2nd only. In amateur ball, the steal of third (or double steal of third and second) is an ever-present possibility. Some umpire has gotta be in position to call the play at third, which is where the catcher ALWAYS throws.

Mike, I appreciate your good words for the BRD. But I don't know where you've "referenced it." My market report shows you've never bought the book since Officiating.com began publishing it in 1999! Drop by: http://www.officiating.com. The 2009 version is the best yet, and there have been a lotta rule changes since 1998

Cheers:

Carl Childress

Editor, Officiating.com

carlchildress@officiating.com

His records must be faulty because I have several copies, but haven't in a number of years. I have suggested guys buy the BRD many times over the years, not to mention that guys look in their copy when there is a question between books.

I have been a member of Officiating.com for quite a few years but took a break when some of the guys got over the top. I tried to return numerous times over the past couple of years but it won't let me post. It shows that I am a member but it won't reconize my user and password and I can't rejoin because it would two usernames for one email. I have tried numerous methods to get help including emailing Carl directly to no avail.

I remember the old mechanics that insisted that you keep an umpire ahead of the runner at all costs which left the R1 calling both halves of the double play.

As far as Carl's 21st century mechanics I didn't mention a single one because other than starting in B with nobody on, I can't remember them. I do know I didn't like them and wouldn't recommend them. It is nothing personal with Carl, I just don't like them. I mentioned sparring with Carl, I have supported him many times and disagreed many times. It goes back through Officiating.com to Eteamz.com and Usenet.com.

I am friends with many of the guys that he has used to write for his site and discuss things with them on a regular basis. I have been trained by professional umpires including Jim Evans. I may be an amateur because I don't work in the professional ranks, nor do I write for a paid website or Referee as he did, but I am very well trained and very knowledgable in what I teach. I do tell my clinics that moving to B as much as I do is a preference thing and if they aren't comfortable don't do it. Most of my group does it my way and like it very much.

[therefump]

I have a problem with "it has to be.....". If 3rd base is not holding the runner then I want a cleaner shot at the 1st base play. Mechanics are important (especially for newbes) but are not in stone. I trust my judgement over a manual at this time in my life. After 28 yrs. of umpiring I know when I'm out of position (aka "C" with 2 outs and a runner not being covered on 3rd).

Gosh I sound like an old fart. For the record, however, I ALWAYS take a B/R into 3rd base with nobody on base. I HUSTLE.

I would ask for other opinions, however. I'm not perfect, although I strive for it.:TD: