Abandonment and force outs

[basejester]

If we call out a forced runner (let's call him "Merkle") for abandoning under 7.08 for the third out, can any run score on the play?  That is, if a forced runner abandons, is it a force out or a timing play?

2.0 . . .

A FORCE PLAY is a play in which a runner legally loses his right to occupy a base
by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first,
second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a
play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first
base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is
declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

 

7.08 Any runner is out when—

 (a) . . .

(2) after touching first base, he leaves the base path, obviously abandoning his
effort to touch the next base;

 

 

[ElkOil]

So do you mean to ask what happens if a runner crosses the plate before a forced runner abandons prior to being put out?  And in your scenario, do the fielders not attempt the put-out due to the runner's actions?  I'm a bit confused.

[basejester]

Right.

One runner crosses the plate. 

Merkle (R1), thinking the game is won, abandons his attempt to reach second base.

The defense mopes about for awhile and makes no attempt to retire Merkle.

Under modern rules, do we bang Merkle for abandonment and score no runs?  Or does the defense need to get the ball to second base?

 

[DVA7130]

That's... a good question

[ricka56]

I think an abandonment call is a time play...run scores. The defense could appeal an advantageous 4th force out if they wanted to prevent the scoring.

[ElkOil]

I'm still confused, but I'll take a crack at it.

If the winning run crossed the plate, the game is over, force or not, so the runner is moot at that point, as are the defensive team's actions.  

If everyone started leaving the field mistakenly thinking that run was the winning run, and there's more playing to be had, the runner's abandonment of the base is the final out and the run counts because no play is a time play (not a "timing"play) when the runner is forced out, not simply a when the force is in effect (FED 9-1-1b and your citation in your OP).

That's what I'm going with, anyway.

[BuckeyeMike]

In FED, no runs score.  I'm pretty sure there's a case play on it, which I can't find right now.

In other codes, I think it's the same.   I don't see how any runs can score, given that the 3rd out is made on a runner forced.  

The Defense shouldn't need to appeal this,  It's our judgment on abandonment.

 

[noumpere]

I agree with ricka.  From JR:

During a force, any consecutive runner who abandons his advance base is not a 7.10

force out. However, an appeal of the abandoned base as a missed base can be

upheld for an advantageous fourth out (see second example below).

Examples:

.

2– R3, R1, game tied at 2-2, bottom of the ninth inning, 2 outs. Base hit.

R3 touches home plate as the apparent winning run and the batter-runner

touches first, but R1 goes to join in the celebration at home plate without

advancing to (or near) second base: technically, R1 is out for

abandonment, but this is not a force out, and the run can score. If the

defense were to appeal that R1 had not touched second, there would be a

force out, and no run. Hence, the umpire should not declare an out until

the defense appeals the missed base.