Foul Ball Reversal???

[Aussie123]

In a LL District Allstar Championship game with a 4-Umpire crew an obvious "failure to communicate" situation occurred between myself, PU, and U3 involving a fair/foul ball. With R-1, Lefty BR's hits a little pop-up that goes half-way up the 3rd base foul line. Catcher gives chase...F-5 charges in and I quickly move to straddle the line. The ball lands just a foot inside fair territory and given the spin from a left-handed hitter, appears to me to be untouched as it whirled in a little dust devil across the foul line towards the open dugout doorway. I'm screened out by the diving catcher, but given the landing point and the trajectory of the spinning ball, it appeared that the ball was untouched. I make a very subtle open hands gesture as I look to U3. Nothing in return from U3...nice shades though I remember thinking. With the ball now about 3 feet from rolling into the open dugout door, I call out, "Cris!" Again, nice shades...but no response. Just before the ball rolls into the dugout, and not wanting to compound the issue, I call, "Foul" 

 

After the foul call, skipper, coaching at third base, starts walking down the line. You guessed it...he politely states that the ball deflected off the catcher's mitt in fair territory. I nodded and walk out to U3 to ask what he saw. Given U3 didn't meet me half-way and was oblivious to my earlier hand signs, I didn't have a good feeling. The fact that I had never worked with him before nor had seen him working Allstar tournaments in past years, didn't help either. "Yeah, I think the ball might have hit off the cather's mitt", was U3's response to my question. I asked, "Are you 100% sure you saw the ball hit off the catcher's mitt in fair territory?" " I think so..." was U3's answer. No, I didn't bother to ask him why he felt that was confidential information...not to be shared earlier with me?

 

To maintain game integrity, I explained to the OC that he may very well be correct that the ball hit first off the catcher's mitt in fair territory and U3 also saw it that way. However, due to the fact that I called it a foul ball, I'll humbly accept the blame and we're all going to have to accept it and play on with R-1 returning and BR getting another shot at a home run...which he had earlier in the game. Being humble and exhorting the positive seemed to work as the OC shrugged and said, "Yeah, OK"

 

With the batter back in the box and runner back to first base, I turned to the scoring booth to verify the 1-2 count on the batter. The Senior District Umpire then called me over and emphatically wanted me to reverse my foul call? Put R-1 on second base and award BR first base. Again, being humble, I explained that I had killed the play...it's my fault and we're playing on. No, he argues that in LL World Series, they have reversed foul calls with the benefit of instant-replay...and I need to do likewise. I left Senior behind the fence and walked out and called in all my umpires. U1 and U2 couldn't tell if the ball glanced off the catcher's mitt, but all were in agreement that, with my calling the ball foul, it's a 1-2 count do-over for the batter. Given the 89 degree temp, I trotted back to HP...ignored Senior Umpire and quickly called, "Play!"

 

Yes, there was a lengthy post-game discussion with District Senior Umpire, but when I asked him to show me where in the LL Rule Book there is a provision for an umpire to do a foul ball reversal...he just said he'll text me? Cell phone is on the charger...no texts yet?

 

Respectfully, what are your opinions?

 

 

 

 

[umpstu]

Dead is dead.  If the ball was almost to the dugout R1 might be on third and the batter at second.  I have no idea how a foul ball in that situation could be or should be changed.

[1dumbquestion]

4 man? Why is it that every LL wants to run 4 man in the Allstars with guys that work 2 man all year and are questionable with 3 or 4 man (me included)?

 

It's foul. you did fine with sticking with it.

 

WTH is the "Senior District Umpire" doing instructing you from outside the fence. He can talk with you after the game but unless you went to him he has no authority on that field. If the OC wants to protest then the TC can call Regional or Williamsport but it sounds like he was ok with the outcome. 1

[noumpere]

Why did you call "foul" before the ball rolled into the dugout?  It wasn't foul yet.

 

And it ALWAYS easier to change fair to foul then the reverse.

[MPLSMatt]

Hindsight is 20/20, but my first thought is that I'd let the play happen as if fair, then call the umpires together and hear what they saw and go from there.  I agree with what you did once you called foul, especially since your U3 didn't give you a 100% on the fair/foul.

 

I also think that this is a great scenario of why 4 man for a local LL game is crazy.  You have guys unaccustomed to working that system and too often when you go to four umpires, you are having to dig too deep into your umpire pool to fill those spots.  A strong 2 man team is far more effective than a 4 man with only 2 strong umpires.  In 2 man you probably would've missed the call but there would have been no "what do we do now" discussion and awkward stares.  Just "skip, I didn't have a touch there - count is 1-2.  Let's play ball." 

[MLW0038]

In your pre-game, you should discuss with your partners signals for if you get blocked out or if someone is not able to make a call (Ex. Fair/Foul) that is there's for a very very exceptionally rare reason.

 

First off, always address a manager by first name, that's how you introduce yourself at the plate meeting, as he introduces himself to you by first name. 

 

In this situation, I do see potential (not saying the call was right or wrong) for how you could change it. Considering that the ball was batted and went out of play, it would be a two base award. Batter-Runner would go to 2nd. You'd have a hell of a time selling a defensive coach on that however. Your "senior district umpire" is incorrect in wanting to give the batter 1B. 

 

After a crew consultation, you make a decision on if your going to change the call or not. If you do you do, if you don't you don't. But if you do, please don't listen to this senior umpire, make sure you get the base award right.

 

Yours in Baseball,

 

MLW0038