Courtesy runner out of order

[ERW27]

How do you handle this situation. Coach asks for time to CR his pitcher. After 2-1 count defensive head coach says that is wrong runner and I check line up cards and books he was not last batted out. I called the runner out but my partner and I didn't know if there was actually a rule and penalty for it. Is it same as batting out of order? If so 3 pitches were thrown and it is negated. How bad did I screw this up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jocko]

Rule set?

[treydawgmt]

What ruleset and were they using continuous batting order or subs?  There isn't a penalty in any ruleset that I know of, but in FED based rules have a few different rules on the courtesy runner.  It might not have to be the last batted out.  Usually it is, especially in summer tourneys where they are doing a continuous batting order.  But in all cases the umpire is not to allow an illegal courtesy runner.

[Jocko]

In games with a continuous order and no subs, there is no penalty. You simply replace the wrong one for the right one.

[DVA7130]

I wouldn't enforce any penalty. Put the proper runner on and warn coach to watch it more carefully.

[treydawgmt]

I wouldn't enforce any penalty. Put the proper runner on and warn coach to watch it more carefully.

 

I'm not sure I'd warn the coach to watch it more carefully.  FED ruleset specifically requires the umpire to record courtesy runners, and not allow improper ones.  OBR rules require the umpire to watch all subs and make sure they are legal.  While it could easily get missed, I'm not sure I'd tell the coach it is HIS job when it is implicitly OUR job to make sure it's correct.

[Jocko]

I wouldn't enforce any penalty. Put the proper runner on and warn coach to watch it more carefully.

 

I'm not sure I'd warn the coach to watch it more carefully.  FED ruleset specifically requires the umpire to record courtesy runners, and not allow improper ones.  OBR rules require the umpire to watch all subs and make sure they are legal.  While it could easily get missed, I'm not sure I'd tell the coach it is HIS job when it is implicitly OUR job to make sure it's correct.im not recording every out of every inning and I dont keep up with the batting order unless a question comes up. Continuous order puts the impetus on the OTHC to do it right. Just fix it.

[ricka56]

USSSA changed the rule their CR rule a few years back. If the CR is found to be improper, you replace with a proper CR without penalty.

[ERW27]

The rule was a sub or last batter out.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricka56]

The rule was a sub or last batter out.

 

ok, so tell us the rest of the rule (what if offense uses the wrong CR). You dunno (reason for the OP) ? Tell us what rule set you are using ? You dunno ? Find out. If the CR rule is just a local rule, and there is no penalty specified for violation, there is nothing we can tell you. I guess the umpires are free to invoke 9.01c. But there is bound to be a slobberfest if each umpire is just winging it. If it's a local rule, ask your TD.

[ERW27]

The runner was not the last out looking at my lineup card in didn't know who made out or reached base so it was good to me. The defensive coach made me aware of the infraction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fed rules modified ncaa slide rules and balk

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricka56]

The rule was a sub or last batter out.

Fed rules

 

These two statements are mutually exclusive. I'm not trying to be difficult. When you have an organization making up rules for their own games, unintended consequences like this arise.

[ERW27]

Hence the confusion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ricka56]

Hence the lack of help here. I doubt you're the first to run into this problem where you work.  Ask your UIC/TD.  

[FleasOf1000Camels]

I work with several different sanctioning bodies, and they ALL handle this in their own way.

Among the groups I'm familiar with BPA (Baseball Players of America) is the MOST restrictive:

"If the wrong courtesy runner is used and the defense reports the error before the first pitch or play, the runner is out.  If the error is reported at any later time, the correct runner is inserted without penalty."

 

Bottom line, you'd better know the rule set for wherever you're working or playing.

 

When I become Emperor of the Universe, I'm going to ban the use of courtesy runners, artificial pitching mounds, non-wood bats, dead ball appeals, and any rule deviation that allows teams to bat more than 9.

[Jocko]

I work with several different sanctioning bodies, and they ALL handle this in their own way.

Among the groups I'm familiar with BPA (Baseball Players of America) is the MOST restrictive:

"If the wrong courtesy runner is used and the defense reports the error before the first pitch or play, the runner is out. If the error is reported at any later time, the correct runner is inserted without penalty."

Bottom line, you'd better know the rule set for wherever you're working or playing.

When I become Emperor of the Universe, I'm going to ban the use of courtesy runners, artificial pitching mounds, non-wood bats, dead ball appeals, and any rule deviation that allows teams to bat more than 9.

I'll let you know when I'm retiring :givebeer: