Strange Play retouch

[ump570]

 13U travel ball. Good teams. R1 2 outs. OBR rules. I have the dish. 2-1 count. Pitch comes in, ball in the dirt, no swing. Just a ball. R1 steals second on the dirt ball. Catcher doesn't throw down. All of a sudden, R1 walks back to first. For some reason, he thought there was a foul ball. I don't know why. I didn't say anything other than "Ball" when the pitch came in. The hitter barely moved his bat. Hardly enough to even call a check swing. I guess the kid just had a brain fart. Anyway, when R1 got back to first, the defense executed an appeal and threw over to first, at which point my partner called him out.

 

When the OC asked him why he was out he told him, "You cannot go backwards once you occupy a base. Once he safely occupied second, he could not go back to first."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could go back provided you weren't doing so to confuse the defense. The umpire I was working with has way more experience than me; he works college and even independent pro ball so I assume he's right, but I just wanted some clarification in case I run into the type of play again.

[grayhawk]

You can't run the bases in reverse order for the purposes of making a "travesty of the game."  R1 was certainly not doing this - he was just confused.  I wonder if F4/F6 told him it was a foul ball.

 

In any case, NO WAY am I calling him out on this play.  He already gave up a base - why rub salt in the wound?

[noumpere]

You can't run the bases in reverse order for the purposes of making a "travesty of the game."

 

 

Or once F1 has the ball on the rubber again.  Which also didn't happen in this play.

 

Was there a protest?  lol.

[grayhawk]

when R1 got back to first, the defense executed an appeal and threw over to first, at which point my partner called him out.

 

Also, I just wanted to point out that this is NOT, in any way shape or form, a valid appeal.  Appeals can be made for a missed base, or one left too soon on a caught fly ball.  Leaving a legally occupied base in order to return to the one previously occupied is not an appeal play.  It's similar, in nature, to the case where an appeal cannot be made on a base not yet reached.

 

If the umpire wanted to call the out for running the bases in reverse order, he should have banged the out without the appeal attempt.

[Larry in TN]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could go back provided you weren't doing so to confuse the defense.

 

Ask your partner about the following situation.

 

R2, R3, no outs.  Pitcher throws to 3B in an attempt to pick-off R3.  R3 gets caught in an extended run-down between 3B and Home.  During this rundown, R2 advances to 3B but, thinking that R3 may need to retreat back to 3B he goes back to 2B.  Would he call R2 out for retreating from 3B to 2B in order to allow R3 to return to 3B without an out being recorded?

[UmpJM]

ump570,

 

Your partner was making stuff up.

 

The runner may return to his previously occupied base as long as its not for "the purpose of confusing the defense" or "making a travesty of the game", as long as he does so before the pitcher is in position to make a subsequent pitch.

 

JM

[grayhawk]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you could go back provided you weren't doing so to confuse the defense.

 

Ask your partner about the following situation.

 

R2, R3, no outs.  Pitcher throws to 3B in an attempt to pick-off R3.  R3 gets caught in an extended run-down between 3B and Home.  During this rundown, R2 advances to 3B but, thinking that R3 may need to retreat back to 3B he goes back to 2B.  Would he call R2 out for retreating from 3B to 2B in order to allow R3 to return to 3B without an out being recorded?

 

 

I don't see this as a good example because R3 legally occupies third base until he is put out or scores.  R2 may be standing on third base during R3's rundown, but he still only legally occupies second base.  Case in point - if R3 gets run back to third and R2 is standing on third - R2 is out if both are tagged while in contact with the base (except in the case of a force play).

 

In the OP, the BU said that the runner couldn't go backward once he occupied a base.  Anyway, since F1 was not engaged with possession of the ball, the BU kicked the call.

[Specks]

 

You can't run the bases in reverse order for the purposes of making a "travesty of the game."

 

 

Or once F1 has the ball on the rubber again.  Which also didn't happen in this play.

 

Was there a protest?  lol.

 

 

 

ump570,

 

Your partner was making stuff up.

 

The runner may return to his previously occupied base as long as its not for "the purpose of confusing the defense" or "making a travesty of the game", as long as he does so before the pitcher is in position to make a subsequent pitch.

 

JM

They got it correct. If I'm not mistaken UmpJM (and I am alot), if F1 "toes the rubber" then R2 starts back to 1st, I make the out call without waiting for an appeal.

[UmpJM]

specks,

 

Correct. If the runner retreats to his previously occupied base AFTER the pitcher has engaged the rubber for a subsequent pitch, the umpire should call him out without an appeal.

 

JM

[Jocko]

specks, Correct. If the runner retreats to his previously occupied base AFTER the pitcher has engaged the rubber for a subsequent pitch, the umpire should call him out without an appeal. JM

in this case, the dummy NEEDS to be called out.

[Specks]

specks,

 

Correct. If the runner retreats to his previously occupied base AFTER the pitcher has engaged the rubber for a subsequent pitch, the umpire should call him out without an appeal.

 

JM

Thanks! That's what I thought, just never seen it happen. Did have a foul tip situation where the R1 got to 2nd then everyone was telling him he had to go back, AND HE DID by walking all the way back to 1st. Then a coach ask is the ball still live, my partner (PU) said yes so he WALKED back to 2nd! Both ways the pitcher was off the rubber and watching the runner. This was a JV game with two pretty good programs.