Whose Call is it?

[umpire_scott]

You know, I am not very easily amazed, but in this case I am...(shakes head in disbelief). You can explain it, but you can't make them understand.

 

And then we wonder why fans and coaches think we are arrogant asses.

[Magic]

Communication is key. Pregame everything. When I am the plate umpire I start with no one on and go through every scenario. The first time you work with someone it should be a good 30-45 minute pregame. After you work with someone the pregame can take only 10-15 minutes. But if you pregame right , then these scenarios don't happen.

[HokieUmp]

 

To who it may concern. There are people on the umpire boards that are known as 'trolls'. They post irrelevant things, they make asinine comments, and they reply to threads just to get their post count up. I know I never want to be considered a troll. My advice to you, don't be a troll.

 

It's to "whom" it may concern.  And I've never even looked at my post count.  But trust me what you just wrote was far more asinine and irrelevant than anything I've posted.

 

 

Don't be too sure of that.

[Dragon29]

OK - I'll address the issue everyone else has glossed over.

 

The OC then called time and came out to talk to me. He asks me whose call that was. I tell him to be honest it was in that gray area where it could be either of us, but we both had no catch.

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2. Any suggestions on how to handle this better...?

 

Yes - don't answer that question; it's none of his business whose call it is; it's his business who made the call and that's the umpire he should be talking to. So, when he comes out with that question, the answer should be: "I made the call, Coach. Do you have another question?" (or something like that) and you go from there.

[flastyle727]

Fielder turns body towards foul line, as PU im yelling Scott I'm on the baseball and I'm busting down the line to get fair/foul, catch/no catch. If the coach appeals R3 on a catch, id calmly explain the priorites as listed above. If he continues to complain that no one saw the tag I'd probably say something like "I'm busting my butt for you coach I can't see everything, pay for 3 umpires and we'll get that appeal play also."

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[zm1283]

Fielder turns body towards foul line, as PU im yelling Scott I'm on the baseball and I'm busting down the line to get fair/foul, catch/no catch. If the coach appeals R3 on a catch, id calmly explain the priorites as listed above. If he continues to complain that no one saw the tag I'd probably say something like "I'm busting my butt for you coach I can't see everything, pay for 3 umpires and we'll get that appeal play also."

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

Note to everyone else: Please don't actually say this.

[flastyle727]

I used it as an illustration to say that no matter what we do sometimes we are lose-lose. 

 

Fair/Foul is #1 , Catch/No Catch is #2 and the tag play is irrelevant if the ball isn't caught, even more so if it hits foul.

 

It would look worse if I was 1BLE and the ball lands on the line.....was it fair, was it foul?  I mean in a two-man system you try your best to see everything, sometimes it just can't be done. The onus is on you somedays to explain that to an angry coach.

 

I agree, I probably wouldn't say pay for a 3rd umpire, because that would just make it worse.  I was serious about telling a coach " Coach my main priority is fair/foul, catch/no catch, I tried my best to see it all and Im working my butt off out here for you...lets play ball"

 

BUT....if he was an idiot, I'd probably say something about paying for 3rd umpire  ......

[umpire_scott]

Fielder turns body towards foul line, as PU im yelling Scott I'm on the baseball and I'm busting down the line to get fair/foul, catch/no catch. If the coach appeals R3 on a catch, id calmly explain the priorites as listed above. If he continues to complain that no one saw the tag I'd probably say something like "I'm busting my butt for you coach I can't see everything, pay for 3 umpires and we'll get that appeal play also."

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

 

So I just came from an umpire meeting for an organization I just joined.  They had a case play similar to this but instructed us to handle it completely differently.  It was with a runner on third and a foul pop up behind first base.  They had us backing up towards the backstop to allow us to see everything.

[blue23ll]

The play in the original post was similar, but not like this one. In this case you would want to move back to open your field of vision, as PU you are responsible for the tag up at 3rd.

[umpire_scott]

The play in the original post was similar, but not like this one. In this case you would want to move back to open your field of vision, as PU you are responsible for the tag up at 3rd.

 

So in the OP with the ball being hit to short right field would the PU go out towards the mound rather than trying to get the tag and the catch?

[flastyle727]

No short right field get 1BLE unless you have trouble or fair/foul. Your priorities don't change, fair/foul, catch/no catch, and then tag.

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[blue23ll]

I assume this is a 2 man crew. If the ball is heading toward the right field foul line, first priority is fair/foul. So, do not head toward the mound, you stay on the foul line, moving toward right field, but not to far. If a catch is made, make a quick glance toward third to check on the runner at third. The trade off here is that fair/foul is more important than the tag. If the ball is a non-trouble ball, no fair/foul possibility, then you can move back, open your field of vision and see both the catch and tag. Remember, in 2 man, with runners on base, PU has catch/no catch on any fly ball where the LF or RF move toward the line. All other fly balls the FU has catch/no catch.

[umpire_scott]

I assume this is a 2 man crew. If the ball is heading toward the right field foul line, first priority is fair/foul. So, do not head toward the mound, you stay on the foul line, moving toward right field, but not to far. If a catch is made, make a quick glance toward third to check on the runner at third. The trade off here is that fair/foul is more important than the tag. If the ball is a non-trouble ball, no fair/foul possibility, then you can move back, open your field of vision and see both the catch and tag. Remember, in 2 man, with runners on base, PU has catch/no catch on any fly ball where the LF or RF move toward the line. All other fly balls the FU has catch/no catch.

 

So in my case there was no fair/foul issue as it was only about 30 feet from the foul line, but it was a trouble ball, where would I go?

[LMSANS]

 

I assume this is a 2 man crew. If the ball is heading toward the right field foul line, first priority is fair/foul. So, do not head toward the mound, you stay on the foul line, moving toward right field, but not to far. If a catch is made, make a quick glance toward third to check on the runner at third. The trade off here is that fair/foul is more important than the tag. If the ball is a non-trouble ball, no fair/foul possibility, then you can move back, open your field of vision and see both the catch and tag. Remember, in 2 man, with runners on base, PU has catch/no catch on any fly ball where the LF or RF move toward the line. All other fly balls the FU has catch/no catch.

 

So in my case there was no fair/foul issue as it was only about 30 feet from the foul line, but it was a trouble ball, where would I go?

 

What is your next priority?  Your partner has catch/no catch?

 

Get in a position to see the tag and be ready for the play at home.

[RichMSN]

 

 

I assume this is a 2 man crew. If the ball is heading toward the right field foul line, first priority is fair/foul. So, do not head toward the mound, you stay on the foul line, moving toward right field, but not to far. If a catch is made, make a quick glance toward third to check on the runner at third. The trade off here is that fair/foul is more important than the tag. If the ball is a non-trouble ball, no fair/foul possibility, then you can move back, open your field of vision and see both the catch and tag. Remember, in 2 man, with runners on base, PU has catch/no catch on any fly ball where the LF or RF move toward the line. All other fly balls the FU has catch/no catch.

 

So in my case there was no fair/foul issue as it was only about 30 feet from the foul line, but it was a trouble ball, where would I go?

 

What is your next priority?  Your partner has catch/no catch.

 

Get in a position to see the tag and be ready for the play at home.

 

 

Does he?  I still read it as F9 going towards the line.  

 

(It doesn't help that in the original both umpires made the call, so I still really have no picture of who *should've* been on the ball.)

[LMSANS]

 

 

 

I assume this is a 2 man crew. If the ball is heading toward the right field foul line, first priority is fair/foul. So, do not head toward the mound, you stay on the foul line, moving toward right field, but not to far. If a catch is made, make a quick glance toward third to check on the runner at third. The trade off here is that fair/foul is more important than the tag. If the ball is a non-trouble ball, no fair/foul possibility, then you can move back, open your field of vision and see both the catch and tag. Remember, in 2 man, with runners on base, PU has catch/no catch on any fly ball where the LF or RF move toward the line. All other fly balls the FU has catch/no catch.

 

So in my case there was no fair/foul issue as it was only about 30 feet from the foul line, but it was a trouble ball, where would I go?

 

What is your next priority?  Your partner has catch/no catch.

 

Get in a position to see the tag and be ready for the play at home.

 

 

Does he?  I still read it as F9 going towards the line.  

 

(It doesn't help that in the original both umpires made the call, so I still really have no picture of who *should've* been on the ball.)

 

I was thinking about that.  I edited my post so the catch/no catch is ?

[umpire_scott]

Well I think that by the book it was my call as the RF did, ever so slightly, moved towards the line.  The vast majority of his movement was directly in towards the infield however.  I think that in retrospect the best way to make this call in 2-man would have been for the BU to take the catch/no catch.  He is much closer and will get a much better look at it, plus it enables me to have a better angle on the tag-up and be prepared for the play at home.

[RichMSN]

Well I think that by the book it was my call as the RF did, ever so slightly, moved towards the line.  The vast majority of his movement was directly in towards the infield however.  I think that in retrospect the best way to make this call in 2-man would have been for the BU to take the catch/no catch.  He is much closer and will get a much better look at it, plus it enables me to have a better angle on the tag-up and be prepared for the play at home.

 

Forget the Monday morning quarterbacking on who would be the better person to take that after the luxury of having the time to think about it.  What's needed, in the moment that the play happens, is a method for the 2 umpires on the field to decide, IMMEDIATELY, who takes the ball.

 

If you have enough experience (where the umpires can P2R quickly) and a trusted partner so that the base guy says, "I'VE GOT THE BALL" immediately, then he can take it.  But, quite frankly, I'm guessing you (and probably your partner) are not in that place.  So an absolute is a better way of dealing with it.

 

You said that F9 moved towards the line (and not straight in), right?  It's the plate umpire's ball.  Go get it.  Make sure your partner hears you and knows that *you* have it.  Do the best you can with the tag of third -- it's secondary.

[blue23ll]

Scott, I get the feeling you are over-thinking things just a bit. This might be just for the purposes of debate here in these forums, and I certainly hope that your games aren't filled with this much indecision. We need to make 'split second' decisions on the field, in spite of the mantra Pause-Read-React. The PRR is done rapidly.  The RF was moving "slightly toward the RF line, but more in toward the infield", "the pitch was borderline, so I ball the high and inside ones and strike the outside and low ones", trying to make calls the coaches want, instead of the right calls. This kind of thinking will derail your umpiring career quite rapidly.

 

I am not saying this to start an argument, or get called names. This is friendly advice, one umpire to another. Please take it in the spirit it is given.

[umpire_scott]

 

Well I think that by the book it was my call as the RF did, ever so slightly, moved towards the line.  The vast majority of his movement was directly in towards the infield however.  I think that in retrospect the best way to make this call in 2-man would have been for the BU to take the catch/no catch.  He is much closer and will get a much better look at it, plus it enables me to have a better angle on the tag-up and be prepared for the play at home.

 

Forget the Monday morning quarterbacking on who would be the better person to take that after the luxury of having the time to think about it.  What's needed, in the moment that the play happens, is a method for the 2 umpires on the field to decide, IMMEDIATELY, who takes the ball.

 

If you have enough experience (where the umpires can P2R quickly) and a trusted partner so that the base guy says, "I'VE GOT THE BALL" immediately, then he can take it.  But, quite frankly, I'm guessing you (and probably your partner) are not in that place.  So an absolute is a better way of dealing with it.

 

You said that F9 moved towards the line (and not straight in), right?  It's the plate umpire's ball.  Go get it.  Make sure your partner hears you and knows that *you* have it.  Do the best you can with the tag of third -- it's secondary.

 

 

Well this is something I plan on pre-gaming about.  Obviously my partner may disagree, but if he's agreeable I would say that on a trouble ball that has no issue with fair/foul the BU should call the PU off and take it.  A simple point to the outfield would tell me that he's on it. 

[umpire_scott]

Scott, I get the feeling you are over-thinking things just a bit. This might be just for the purposes of debate here in these forums, and I certainly hope that your games aren't filled with this much indecision. We need to make 'split second' decisions on the field, in spite of the mantra Pause-Read-React. The PRR is done rapidly.  The RF was moving "slightly toward the RF line, but more in toward the infield", "the pitch was borderline, so I ball the high and inside ones and strike the outside and low ones", trying to make calls the coaches want, instead of the right calls. This kind of thinking will derail your umpiring career quite rapidly.

 

I am not saying this to start an argument, or get called names. This is friendly advice, one umpire to another. Please take it in the spirit it is given.

 

I always overthink/over-analyze everything.  Just ask my wife.

[blue23ll]

 

Scott, I get the feeling you are over-thinking things just a bit. This might be just for the purposes of debate here in these forums, and I certainly hope that your games aren't filled with this much indecision. We need to make 'split second' decisions on the field, in spite of the mantra Pause-Read-React. The PRR is done rapidly.  The RF was moving "slightly toward the RF line, but more in toward the infield", "the pitch was borderline, so I ball the high and inside ones and strike the outside and low ones", trying to make calls the coaches want, instead of the right calls. This kind of thinking will derail your umpiring career quite rapidly.

 

I am not saying this to start an argument, or get called names. This is friendly advice, one umpire to another. Please take it in the spirit it is given.

 

I always overthink/over-analyze everything.  Just ask my wife.

 

Let me give you a quick, free, therapy session....my advice to you is:

 

STOP IT!

 

Tim Conway has a hilarious skit about being a therapist...you should see it.

 

 

As far as umpiring is concerned, I like to think of it being about 90% instinct, once you learn what you need to do, you don't think about it. Put two partners together who are on the same page, you won't see many signals, maybe not even hear a lot of stuff between them, but they will work like a well oiled machine.  Too much thinking, you will end up doing nothing.