Obstruction question

[stl_ump]

OBR - R1 and R3

Classic rundown situation between 1st and 2nd. R1 is obstructed and it is called and ball is dead. R1 gets 2nd.

Question: What happens to R3 who, during the rundown, was making his way to home but was not there yet?

[Jocko]

What action appropriately nullifies the OBS?

[Rich Ives]

OBR - R1 and R3

Classic rundown situation between 1st and 2nd. R1 is obstructed and it is called and ball is dead. R1 gets 2nd.

Question: What happens to R3 who, during the rundown, was making his way to home but was not there yet?

If you think he would have scored if there had been no obstruction call you score him. If you think he would not have scored, send him back.

Consider the level of play.

[stl_ump]

Ahhh... very nice. I was wondering about that. So even though I'm killing it, the "other" guy gets to go where he would have ended up without the obs.

Thanks

[Dragon29]

Wait - maybe I'm missing something here (wouldn't be the first time!) and maybe this is a HTBT sitch, but . . .

If the run-down is between 1B & 2B, and R3 was taking his sweet time heading for Home, he has no right to benefit from the OBS. If he's in no-man's land when I call the Type A OBS on the run-down, I'm killing the play and sending him back to 3B. Now, if he was running (making at least a decent or constant effort) and the OBS occurred so quickly that he could not have made it Home before it happened, I'm absolutely sending him Home.

So, for me, R3's award will be based on his behaviour during the play. If he's doing the 'deer-in-the-headlights' watching the run-down when the OBS occurs - 3B!

[noumpere]

Wait - maybe I'm missing something here (wouldn't be the first time!) and maybe this is a HTBT sitch, but . . .

If the run-down is between 1B & 2B, and R3 was taking his sweet time heading for Home, he has no right to benefit from the OBS. If he's in no-man's land when I call the Type A OBS on the run-down, I'm killing the play and sending him back to 3B. Now, if he was running (making at least a decent or constant effort) and the OBS occurred so quickly that he could not have made it Home before it happened, I'm absolutely sending him Home.

So, for me, R3's award will be based on his behaviour during the play. If he's doing the 'deer-in-the-headlights' watching the run-down when the OBS occurs - 3B!

Noone said anything different. Its where R3 would of gotten without the OBS. So in your deer-in-the-headlights he would of been at third without the oBS so he stays at thrid with the OBS.

[Rich Ives]

Wait - maybe I'm missing something here (wouldn't be the first time!) and maybe this is a HTBT sitch, but . . .

If the run-down is between 1B & 2B, and R3 was taking his sweet time heading for Home, he has no right to benefit from the OBS. If he's in no-man's land when I call the Type A OBS on the run-down, I'm killing the play and sending him back to 3B. Now, if he was running (making at least a decent or constant effort) and the OBS occurred so quickly that he could not have made it Home before it happened, I'm absolutely sending him Home.

So, for me, R3's award will be based on his behaviour during the play. If he's doing the 'deer-in-the-headlights' watching the run-down when the OBS occurs - 3B!

The decision is NOT based on whether or not he could have made it before the obstruction happened. Your ONLY job is to decide where he would have ended up if there was no obstruction on the other runner. If he was sneaking slowly down the line and you think he would have broken for home and made it had the rundown continued long enough - award home.

[Dragon29]

The decision is NOT based on whether or not he could have made it before the obstruction happened. Your ONLY job is to decide where he would have ended up if there was no obstruction on the other runner. If he was sneaking slowly down the line and you think he would have broken for home and made it had the rundown continued long enough - award home.

True enough, but I'm not a mind reader. I need to see some evidence he was making an honest effort to score, or he's staying put.

[mstaylor]

All we have to decide was could he have scored absent the obstruction. Whether he ran hard or trotted in is irrelevant, that is not our issue.

[Jocko]

I agree. It would be hard to justify advancing R1 and "punishing" R3. If he was standing stock still watching the rundown, I might can see putting him back. If he was gaining distance AT ALL, I'm scoring him. DT effed up with the OBS. They obviously conceded the run for the out on R1. Oblige them, sans the OBS that's what they could have gotten. R2, run scores.

[Dragon29]

Well, I would disagree with

All we have to decide was could he have scored absent the obstruction.

If that's all we had to decide, this dicussion wouldn't be taking plcae; it would be an automatic score.

Whether he ran hard or trotted in is irrelevant, that is not our issue.

I agree - to me, either of those shows what I referred to as an honest effort to score, while this . . .

. . . If he was standing stock still watching the rundown, I might can see putting him back.

. . . would not.

Honestly, I think we mostly agree here; I may have just been phrasing it a bit more emphatically.

[mstaylor]

I believe we are close in our views. What I took you to say was the R3 was trotting in so didn't score before the obstruction was called so you would put him back. My point is he isn't running hard because the play went elsewhere so he didn't need to run harder. Now, if the obstruction had not occured, would he have made home? If yes, then score him. However, on the other end of the equation, if the obstruction hadn't happened and there had been two outs, and the runner gets tagged for the third out, the R3 would not score and that would be his problem.

[HWK34BB]

R3, runner at 3rd, returns to 3B, since the umpire killed play when ruling on the Type A obstruction. Had R3 crossed the plate before the obstruction occured, the run would score.

[Rich Ives]

R3, runner at 3rd, returns to 3B, since the umpire killed play when ruling on the Type A obstruction. Had R3 crossed the plate before the obstruction occured, the run would score.

I take it you didn't read all of the posts above.

[noumpere]

R3, runner at 3rd, returns to 3B, since the umpire killed play when ruling on the Type A obstruction. Had R3 crossed the plate before the obstruction occured, the run would score.

Absolutely true.

Of course the runner might score even if he hadnt crossed the plate at the time of the obstuction but your post didnt discuss that.

[Rich Ives]

R3, runner at 3rd, returns to 3B, since the umpire killed play when ruling on the Type A obstruction. Had R3 crossed the plate before the obstruction occured, the run would score.

Absolutely true.

Of course the runner might score even if he hadnt crossed the plate at the time of the obstuction but your post didnt discuss that.

A runner returning to 3B on his own following the call of time means nothing, nada, zip, zero. Live ball yes. After the time call no.

You place him where you think he would have advanced if there had been no obstruction. It really is that simple.