American Legion Rules Help

[celt62]

I ran into this last night and I am stumped. I looked at both of my OBR books and I didn't really see an answer to this. I was on the bases with an inexperienced PU but very eager to learn and they were playing with a DH for the pitcher and the pitcher got up to bat after the DH. The opposing coach noticed and called attention to it. He called me in for help and showed me what happened. First he showed me the lineup card that listed the DH and then the starting pitcher after in the seven hole. I wish he had showed it to me before we got started but what's done is done. Here's what I came up with in this unusual scenario and I don't know if I'm right or very wrong. Fortunately it was a meaningless contest. I couldn't see it as batting out of order because he wasn't in the lineup as a hitter but as an illegal substitution. I felt he should be called out and proper batter next to hit. If they wanted to make that legal could he have stayed in the game and batted for the proper batter and then lose the DH and then do a double switch and move the DH for the former proper batter's defensive position? WOW!, I know that's a lot but I didn't know what to do. Any ideas?

[johnnyg08]

If the pitcher was in the batter's box, just put the proper batter in the batter's box and move on.

[celt62]

I left this out that he had already had at least one pitch thrown to him. He's technically not in the batting order because he's being DHed for so what rule would it be. Illegal sub? There has to be some sort of penalty right? Because now they would be batting 10.

[bam]

DH has to be for the pitcher. If brought up while the pitcher is at bat, bring up the position player who was out of the batting order. If after (and it's the top of the first) the pitcher is an unannounced sub and they now need a new pitcher. If the pitcher has already pitched, he's ejected. Record the out and announce a substitute.

That's the best I got without going to the rule book.

[celt62]

thanks

[cookie]

Celt62: "... I looked at both of my OBR books and I didn't really see an answer to this..."

OBR Rule 6.10...

(10) Once the game pitcher bats for the Designated Hitter, such move shall

terminate the Designated Hitter role for that club for the remainder of the

game. The game pitcher may pinch-hit only for the Designated Hitter. (underlining mine)

It couldn't be made legal while the team was at bat because the pitcher would be pinch-hitting for someone other than the DH. (A double switch could be made while they are on the defense.) I believe it is as you said "an illegal substitution" which if discovered during play has stiff penalties for both the pitcher and the substituted batter (number 7 batter in this case).

[glengray]

How about this?:

The pitcher has now entered and is batting for himself (thus terminating the DH), but is batting out of order and, if determined while at bat, the proper batter (#7 in the OP) takes his place and assumes his count. If determined after the AB is completed, the proper batter (#7 in the OP) is out and the # 8 batter is up. In either case, the DH is terminated by the pitcher batting (out of order) for himself.

[jnazz]

I understand that we're scowering our heads to find the proper rule interpretation for this situation, but we must remember who's at fault -- the PU. At the plate meeting he must inspect the lineups, especially when a team uses the DH. They are not batting out of order, the lineup is incomplete and incorrect. Fix the problem and continue. Hopefully the PU will use this as a learning experience and never make this mistake again.

Here is a citing from JR regarding lineups and the plate meeting:

The plate umpire must ascertain that the original cards have no obvious, inadvertent errors. For example, a batting order lists two DH's, or a pitcher and a DH, or the same player twice, or different players with the same surname but no distinguishing initial.

If an error is noticed after the declaration of "play", the mistake is usually self-correcting.