Coach Makes Call

[yawetag]

You do NOT call time immediately. These are 13-15's so IMO at this age level (15 is JV level) they should KNOW to ignore the actions of the "other" coach. To me it's akin to the 1B coach giving a safe sign on a banger at first. The coaches safe signal means NOTHING. It's what the umpire says.

In the middle of a pop fly, how do you expect the runners and fielders to know whether it's the coach or the umpires calling the IFR?

[PeteBooth]

In the middle of a pop fly, how do you expect the runners and fielders to know whether it's the coach or the umpires calling the IFR?

Irrelevant

On a pop-fly in the infield the runners are NOT going anywhere.

Also, in addition to calling IF the umpire is supposed to SIGNAL. If the players see NO signal then NO IF. If the coach does YELL something, then the umpire can negate by simply saying NO IF so that the players KNOW to disregard the DC.

FWIW: In the scheme of things if it's a pop-up ANYWHERE in the infield for shaved players call the IF.

As far as your assertion

how do you expect the runners and fielders to know whether it's the coach or the umpires

happens all game long. There is a lot of NOISE in the ball park.

Suppose a FAN Yells IF going to call Fan Interference or negate the play because a FAN said something?

Pete Booth

[calablue]

First things First.

You said you were playing by OBR rules. In OBR there is no such animal as verbal OBS. FED has both verbal OBS and Verbal Int.

You do NOT call time immediately. These are 13-15's so IMO at this age level (15 is JV level) they should KNOW to ignore the actions of the "other" coach. To me it's akin to the 1B coach giving a safe sign on a banger at first. The coaches safe signal means NOTHING. It's what the umpire says.

IMO, the main problem in this OP is YOUR silence. Your partner called the IF and you said NOTHING. Perhaps the DC while not actually hearing the PU say IF saw the signal, hence he instructed his defense.

If in fact neither you or your partner called it then after the play you speak to the coach.

Remember the IF is to protect the offense and generally speaking when you have a pop-up ANYWHERE in the infield it's best to call the IF.

Pete Booth

As i said in the OP, I was looking for input on how to handle the situation IF NEITHER UMPIRE HAD CALLED THE IFR ( and I mean because the hit does not fit the criteria) AND THE COACH MAKES THE CALL. The situation that actually occured in the game I mentioned I'm not concerned with. We handled that without any problems.

[Spence]

I read the entire chain of posts, and it wasn't until Pete's last post, that the comment that I was thinking all along came up. I umpire fastpitch softball, and at any level, the umpire making the call is supposed to raise his right arm in the air with fist clenched. As a partner, it doesn't matter what I hear, if I don't see that signal, I will assume that the "Infield Fly" comment came from somewhere irrelevant. If my partner did indeed call it and not signal, the ball is still live, we wait for any play to end, and then deal with the "mess". Regardless of whether you have fourty years of experience, or are calling your first game ever, and whether you are the PU, or the only or one of the BU, if you heard your partner make the verbal call, you should be throwing that arm up, and hollering as loud as possible. Just because you wouldn't call it, doesn't mean it is negated. Back your partners up. When I hear a coach assuming an umpires duty, my usual resonse is to call time, walk over with lineup card in hand, so it looks to anyone watching that we have a lineup issue. My words to him would be something like, if he wishes to "help" us umpire, the best way to accomplish that would be to contact us after the game, and we would be happy to hook him up with a clinic, so he could swell the ranks of a grossly understaffed crew. Most often they will remain quiet for the balance of the game, and if they voice objection, remind them that they are there to coach, and if they insist on being both umpire and coach, that the opportunity to do either for the rest of the afternoon, may only be an option if it takes place in the clubhouse or parking lot. We then return to position, with "lineup issue resolved" and continue play. It helps to pretent to be writing something on the lineup as you head back.

[UMP45]

:rolleyes: Spence, In baseball the signal for IFR is to POINT up at the ball.

I read the entire chain of posts, and it wasn't until Pete's last post, that the comment that I was thinking all along came up. I umpire fastpitch softball, and at any level, the umpire making the call is supposed to raise his right arm in the air with fist clenched. As a partner, it doesn't matter what I hear, if I don't see that signal, I will assume that the "Infield Fly" comment came from somewhere irrelevant. If my partner did indeed call it and not signal, the ball is still live, we wait for any play to end, and then deal with the "mess". Regardless of whether you have fourty years of experience, or are calling your first game ever, and whether you are the PU, or the only or one of the BU, if you heard your partner make the verbal call, you should be throwing that arm up, and hollering as loud as possible. Just because you wouldn't call it, doesn't mean it is negated. Back your partners up. When I hear a coach assuming an umpires duty, my usual resonse is to call time, walk over with lineup card in hand, so it looks to anyone watching that we have a lineup issue. My words to him would be something like, if he wishes to "help" us umpire, the best way to accomplish that would be to contact us after the game, and we would be happy to hook him up with a clinic, so he could swell the ranks of a grossly understaffed crew. Most often they will remain quiet for the balance of the game, and if they voice objection, remind them that they are there to coach, and if they insist on being both umpire and coach, that the opportunity to do either for the rest of the afternoon, may only be an option if it takes place in the clubhouse or parking lot. We then return to position, with "lineup issue resolved" and continue play. It helps to pretent to be writing something on the lineup as you head back.

[detailshp]

Players miss signs, coaches make dumb decisions, at all levels of the game. If no Umpire called IFR, then you got nothing. Wait for the play to develop, as it seems you still have a live ball situation ( ball is not caught ) I would hesitate greatly to call this verbal obstruction. Coach may tell a kid not to swing at strike three ball is a tater, and you got an out. Coach makes a mistake, coach lives with his mistake. Just like we umpires do, unless association or league rules specify that you can go back and correct.

Extension: If an umpire wont/doesn't ask for help, from his partner, he lives with the call. Ask Jim Joyce how that feels.