Tagging base on force play

[gobama84]

Need some help here, I have the runner out if a defensive player tags the base on a force with his glove and the ball is in his hand.

I can't find a written reference to back me up. FED reference please though I would think it is the same rule at all levels.

Thanks everyone!

Loyd

[UmpJM]

Loyd,

You are, of course, correct, that the runner is out in that Sitch.

The best FED reference is : 2-24-1, the definition of a "Force Out" which specifies that the fielder "touch" the base, though it doesn't specify with what. Everyone understands that touching it with his shoe is OK, touching it with his glove is equally OK.

JM

[semper_fi_72]

Need some help here, I have the runner out if a defensive player tags the base on a force with his glove and the ball is in his hand.

I can't find a written reference to back me up. FED reference please though I would think it is the same rule at all levels.

Thanks everyone!

Loyd

Lets look this on a logical manner.

Player has posession of ball in glove and steps on base, Out.

Player has posession of ball in bare hand steps on base, Out.

Player has posession of ball in glove or bare hand and touches the base with any part of his body, Out.

Key element here is Posession.

Defensive player can touch the base with a foot, hand, gloved hand, knee, nose.

Rule 2.00 " A Tag is the action of of a fielder in touching a base with his body...."

[gobama84]

The whole arguement I am getting is that the shoe is part of the uniform while the glove is equipment. But that agrument would go out the door if a catcher was to take a knee on the plate (don't know why it would ever happen) with bases loaded. Shin guards are equipment, but you better believe I would have an out.

Loyd

Semper Fi Mr. Semper Fi

[mstaylor]

I assume a coach is making that argument, tell him no, there is no distinction until he takes it off and throws it.

[gobama84]

I assume a coach is making that argument, tell him no, there is no distinction until he takes it off and throws it.

I would not argue with a coach (why bother) . This argument is with my former associations rules guy.

[UmpJM]

The thing that best clarifies the point is the OBR Rule 2.0 definition of "Person", which, for I'm sure no good reason, was omitted from the FED rule book. Despite the omission, the principle is identical in FED.

JM

[mstaylor]

I assume a coach is making that argument, tell him no, there is no distinction until he takes it off and throws it.

I would not argue with a coach (why bother) . This argument is with my former associations rules guy.

A rules guy made that argument? Dear god, what other stupid things is he pushing?

[gobama84]

I assume a coach is making that argument, tell him no, there is no distinction until he takes it off and throws it.

I would not argue with a coach (why bother) . This argument is with my former associations rules guy.

A rules guy made that argument? Dear god, what other stupid things is he pushing?

Notice I said former association. I quit them last night. I'll give it to him, he's a 4rd year guy and trying. I know a 4rd year guy as the rules guy????

[sdix00]

The only exception to this concept I would offer is uniform or equipment detached from its proper place. If F3, running to tag 1B, fell short and removed his cap to tag 1B, I would not allow it.

However, I would allow the laces on his glove to touch 1B, as long as he was wearing the glove properly.

[yawetag]

I assume a coach is making that argument, tell him no, there is no distinction until he takes it off and throws it.

Even then, if a player takes his shoe off and throws it at a ball, wouldn't the award be the same?

[Cajuncubsfan]

The whole arguement I am getting is that the shoe is part of the uniform while the glove is equipment. But that agrument would go out the door if a catcher was to take a knee on the plate (don't know why it would ever happen) with bases loaded. Shin guards are equipment, but you better believe I would have an out.

Loyd

Semper Fi Mr. Semper Fi

I will just tell him he touched the bag and move on. If the coach is fussing about that he is probably messing with you and trying to rattle you. He should know better!

[mstaylor]

A fourth year guy has no business being the rules guy. He is still learning the written rules, less alone the nuances of how to call them.

[stl_ump]

I had this happen to me last year. Shortstop lying on his back with the ball in his hand and can't roll over fast enough to touch the bag. He reaches out and tags the base with his glove.

OUT

No one said anything but some fan in the stands. I chatted with him and asked him how that differs from tagging a base with your foot/shoe? He mellowed out pretty quick.

[cyclonehokiece]

I am going to use a reference I was told when timing for a swim meet, because it applies here: "Whatever touches first, hand, foot, head, butt, stop the clock" except in this case, whatever touches it first (and equipment used properly) call the touch of the bag.