Foul Tip clarification

[Grip]

Just looking for clarification on a foul tip. Have never seen this scenario before but it came up in discussion:

Batter swings at pitch which goes sharp and direct to catchers mitt; ball rebounds onto catcher's leg guard and balloons into the air which allows the catcher to eventually catch the ball. Do you have this as a foul tip?

[yawetag]

Yes.

A FOUL TIP is a batted ball that goes sharp and direct from the bat to the catcher’s hands and is legally caught. It is not a foul tip unless caught and any foul tip that is caught is a strike, and the ball is in play. It is not a catch if it is a rebound, unless the ball has first touched the catcher’s glove or hand.

And, for Fed, we have the following Situation:

2.16.2A: B2 swings and tips the ball and a) the ball goes directly to the catcher's glove and then rebounds to the catcher's chest protector, the the ball is caught by the catcher... RULING: In a) the pitch is a strike and remains live.

Edited June 7, 2010 by yawetag

[txump81]

I had one the other day also. This is in LL Minors softball. Batter is about 40" tall and swings at a pitch. She makes contact and the ball takes an arc back to the catcher. To clarify, I stood up on the contact and the ball never made it above my eyes or head and the catcher never came out of her stance and caught the ball. Everyone thought the girl was out and I called a foul tip.

[Mike Prince]

I had one the other day also. This is in LL Minors softball. Batter is about 40" tall and swings at a pitch. She makes contact and the ball takes an arc back to the catcher. To clarify, I stood up on the contact and the ball never made it above my eyes or head and the catcher never came out of her stance and caught the ball. Everyone thought the girl was out and I called a foul tip.

Did the ball go above the batter"s head/shoulders? That is the determinant of whether it is a caught strike or an out in this instance.

[Rich Ives]

Did the ball go above the batter"s head/shoulders? That is the determinant of whether it is a caught strike or an out in this instance.

No, it isn't.

"Sharp and direct" is the determinant.

[Rich Ives]

I had one the other day also. This is in LL Minors softball. Batter is about 40" tall and swings at a pitch. She makes contact and the ball takes an arc back to the catcher. To clarify, I stood up on the contact and the ball never made it above my eyes or head and the catcher never came out of her stance and caught the ball. Everyone thought the girl was out and I called a foul tip.

Sounds like it did not go sharp and direct to the glove or hands and should have been an out.

[Mike Prince]

No, it isn't.

"Sharp and direct" is the determinant.

Fair enough, I don't think I worded my post too well.

My question is - if the ball is fouled and there is question of the "sharpness and directness" of the path from the bat to the catcher's mitt (there is arc on the ball regardles of the height of the arc), isn't this then a caught foul ball for an out, not a strike?

Edit: You posted the answer I was looking for while I was typing, thanks.

Edited June 7, 2010 by bikerider
I am slow :)

[calablue]

Did the ball go above the batter"s head/shoulders? That is the determinant of whether it is a caught strike or an out in this instance.

Bikerider,

Can you cite the rule that this interpretation comes from? I've never read this or seen it in print anywhere. The definition of a foul tip clearly says sharp and direct from the bat to the catchers hand or mitt, but it seems that sharp and direct can be a judgement call.

[Mike Prince]

Bikerider,

Can you cite the rule that this interpretation comes from? I've never read this or seen it in print anywhere. The definition of a foul tip clearly says sharp and direct from the bat to the catchers hand or mitt, but it seems that sharp and direct can be a judgement call.

No, I cannot as I was wrong. Rich corrected what I wrote.

[calablue]

No, I cannot as I was wrong. Rich corrected what I wrote.

Yeah sorry, he must have posted as I was typing.

[1dumbquestion]

I had one the other day also. This is in LL Minors softball. Batter is about 40" tall and swings at a pitch. She makes contact and the ball takes an arc back to the catcher. To clarify, I stood up on the contact and the ball never made it above my eyes or head and the catcher never came out of her stance and caught the ball. Everyone thought the girl was out and I called a foul tip.

for me, and this is just me, if the catcher had to react to catch the ball. that is to say move the glove any real amount I probably have an out. no movement I most likely have a foul tip. I wouldn't use an eyes or head guideline. what if the catcher lined up low and inside and then moved the glove up and out to catch a foul ball that was below the batters chin? would you not have an out? 1

[Rich Ives]

for me, and this is just me, if the catcher had to react to catch the ball. that is to say move the glove any real amount I probably have an out. no movement I most likely have a foul tip. I wouldn't use an eyes or head guideline. what if the catcher lined up low and inside and then moved the glove up and out to catch a foul ball that was below the batters chin? would you not have an out? 1

I think you should base it on whether the ball went in basically a straight line from the bat to the place where it first touched the glove or hand (not to where the glove was to start), or not.

Straight = foul tip.

[txump81]

for me, and this is just me, if the catcher had to react to catch the ball. that is to say move the glove any real amount I probably have an out. no movement I most likely have a foul tip. I wouldn't use an eyes or head guideline. what if the catcher lined up low and inside and then moved the glove up and out to catch a foul ball that was below the batters chin? would you not have an out? 1

No movement and the ball might have gotten above the batter's eyes, if it did, it didn't clear them. And catcher never left stance whatsoever.

[yawetag]

it seems that sharp and direct can be a judgement call.

Of course. Just like "appreciable height" in IFF.