Batted ball hits dropped bat

[Mike Prince]

Had this in 9U game tonight. I am BU. 2 outs, R1/R2/R3 with a 2-0 lead in the first inning. Batter hits a very short popup (may have gone 5 feet out from plate) with tons of backspin. He drops his bat and takes off for first. Ball rolls backwards into the bat and comes to rest on the front edge of home plate. Catcher kicks bat from its resting position trying to get ball to step on home plate. PU calls foul ball immediately.

Here's where it gets interesting/confusing. DC runs out, PU gives explanation that ball hit the bat therefore it is foul (which by itself is incorrect). Upon further protest from DC, PU says that part of the bat was in the batter's box, resulting in the foul ball call. Problem is by now the bat is back in the batter's hands and there is no evidence of where the bat actually was.

At this point DC asks him to get help from me - I could not see the bat position from "C", all I saw was the ball contact the bat and stop on the plate. PU asks me if the bat was in fair ground, what is the call. My reply is if there's no intent to place bat there (there was not), I have nothing on the play - he really isn't sure how much of the bat was in the batters' box. I can't help him with that and we let the play stand as a foul ball. DC is irate and says he will protest the game. Next pitch to batter is a 3 run double, now it is a 5-0 game and the inning ends with a 7-0 lead on the way to a big victory for the team that was at bat.

The PU did not do a great job explaining the call and things escalated as a result, but the big question came down to whether this rule (excerpted from out local rulebook but I believe it is part of rule 6.05 in the Babe Ruth/Cal Ripken rulebook) was applied properly:

Batted ball contacts batter (or bat) in fair territory

The batter/runner is out and the ball is dead if he/she contacts a batted ball in fair territory before a defensive player other than the pitcher has had the opportunity to make a play on it. This includes hitting the ball with the bat a second time. If the ball rolls into a dropped bat in fair territory or the head of a broken bat hits the ball and in the umpire's judgment there was no intention to interfere the ball is live.

Based on being there I believe the rule was followed and we let the coach know. So he then said he would protest that the bat was in fair ground (which is a judgment call by the PU).

So after all of this long-winded background, is the bat partially in the batters' box considered to be in foul ground making the ball foul when it hits it?

Edited May 7, 2010 by bikerider

[carolinablue]

I don't think it matters where the bat was, only where the ball was ( fair or foul). If you said it rested on the plate than I would say fair ball but HTBT.

Now, the DC coach debating the call was useless because once the ball was called foul by the PU then there is nothing that can be changed. It's a foul ball, he has to live with his call. So does the DC.

[mstaylor]

The ball is what matters, imagine a bat laying half in fair, half in foul. If the ball touches the fair end then it's a live ball, play it. If it touches the foul end it's foul, end of discussion. This all assumes the ball hit the bat,not the other way around.

As mentioned above, it's all academic when he called it foul, foul it is.

[yawetag]

I agree with both of the previous answers. I would like to add that the protest is on a judgment call (fair/foul), so it shouldn't be protestable anyway.

[Mike Prince]

Yeah, I agree with all of the above, thanks. I couldn't see the exact position of the bat and where the ball hit it from C. Just trying to help my partner as he got beat up pretty bad by the DC and felt bad after the game about it. It was a crazy game, wonder if it was a full moon or something :)

[carolinablue]

It was a crazy game, wonder if it was a full moon or something

Worse. It was 9U.;)

[catoblue]

Mike nailed it - just as any play along the lines inside 1B & 3B, it is where the ball is that determines fair or foul. A couple examples:

1) a dribbler up the 3B line, F1 runs over to field it. Ball is in foul, but F1 is in fair when he reaches across the line to pick it up -correct call = foul.

2) same dribbler up the 3B line, this time, the ball is in fair and F1 over-runs it, ending up standing in foul, reaching across the line to pick up the ball - correct call = fair.

In the OP, on the plate or front edge of the plate is fair territory, so regardless of how much of the bat is in foul territory, if the ball makes contact with the dropped bat in fair, it's fair.

[Mike Prince]

Ball definetely never went foul, so the call is/was incorrect but as Mike said the "Foul Ball" call kills the play and there is no recourse. Funny thing is that I have run this play by every umpire from our association I have seen since Thursday, most of them have said that if any part of the bat is foul the ball is foul, even though the scenario includes the words "the ball stayed fair". Oh well. Even when I go back to the ball always being fair, they focus on the possibility that part of the bat may have been in foul ground.

I do know what I am calling if I ever see this again though - thanks for all of the feedback!

[jnazz]

BUT, I thought that with a fair batted ball, you must determine if the ball hit the bat or the bat hit the ball (was the bat stationary or not?). If the bat was moving, interference is called and the batter/runner is out. If the bat was stationary and the ball rolled into it, then play on. If the dropped bat strikes the ball in foul territory then the play is dead with no penalty (foul ball).

Is this incorrect?

[mstaylor]

BUT, I thought that with a fair batted ball, you must determine if the ball hit the bat or the bat hit the ball (was the bat stationary or not?). If the bat was moving, interference is called and the batter/runner is out. If the bat was stationary and the ball rolled into it, then play on. If the dropped bat strikes the ball in foul territory then the play is dead with no penalty (foul ball).

Is this incorrect?

No, you are correct but the OP said the ball rolled to the bat and was touched in fair. In this case it wouldf be fair even though part of the bat is in foul, the part the was touched was in fair.

[jnazz]

I see.