2 man mechanic question

[gatoremt]

I have often wondered why in 2 man that we still have someone in A postition. It seems to me that it would make it easier to just start in B. Maybe I am missing something but I seem to stay in B or C for most of the game. Just a thought, it is something I have always wondered about.

[sdix00]

I will guess before the experts weigh in.

I have learned that the two man system is very much about compromise. And while there is one optimal starting position for every situation, the two-man system often precludes us from being in that position. With no runners on, and starting in 'B', you limit your potential to call the most likely plays as you are not in the position to cover the most possible plays, in their order of likelyhood.

I don't know what the numbers are, but it seems to me that with no runners on, the order of likelyhood goes something like this:

1. Ground Ball hit to infield for an out at 1B.
2. Fly Ball hit to outfield for an out.
3. Strikeout.
4. Base hit to outfield.
5. Double to outfield
6. Infield Error.
7. Home run.
8. Triple to outfield
9. Ground rule double

I think a starting position in 'B', with no runners on, is only the best position for a Double or Triple. For every other play, 'A' is probably better.

[gatoremt]

See I look at it like this. In the 1 to 9 above If I start in A on all those except 1,3, & 6 I would be going into the infield and doing a J hook. So I really would not be paying attention to those. I can call an out at 1st on #1 from B. That is just me.

This topic is just to stir some thought during the off season.

[sdix00]

Don't you think you will need to go out on some of those?

[gatoremt]

Not with the partners I work with. I go straight in to the infield. Once the ball is hit and I know it is going to the outfield I sprint in to follow the runner. That is how I was taught 15 yrs ago.

[mstaylor]

It is an interesting question and there is a well known internet author who advocates exactly that. I have had many arguments about this very discussion.

What are your responsibilties from A?

1. Check Swings

2. Safes/outs at first.

3. Fair/foul from the base to the fence.

4. Troubles balls in RF.

5. Homeruns, balls through/over/under the fence.

Which of these can you do as well or better starting in B? Maybe 5.

1. You can call from the middle but the look is better from the wing.

2. You can call from B, we do it all the time, but it is better from A.

3. Impossible from B.

4. Tough from B, not impossible but not like being in the outfield looking at it.

5. Obvious HRs fine but you can't call anything near the line.

[sdix00]

Not with the partners I work with. I go straight in to the infield. Once the ball is hit and I know it is going to the outfield I sprint in to follow the runner. That is how I was taught 15 yrs ago.

I think this is going to generate the discussion you are looking for.

The two-man system already has it's shortcomings. Not starting in 'A' will add some more.

[gatoremt]

Not with the partners I work with. I go straight in to the infield. Once the ball is hit and I know it is going to the outfield I sprint in to follow the runner. That is how I was taught 15 yrs ago.

I think this is going to generate the discussion you are looking for.

HaHa you are probable right. That is all I am wanting to do. :yippie:

[Mr Umpire]

Well, then if you worked with better umpires, you would be going out on some since your partner would be covering the runner. The odds are better for you to see an oddly developed play at 1B from A rather than B or C. Swipe tags at 1B where the tag is on the line and the infielder would more than likely be between you and the tag.

As Steve pointed out, the likelihood of things being seen from A are far better than from B. Plus, with no runners on and the umpire in A, he is much less likely to be in the middle of any play on the infield. The farther away from the plate and not in fair territory, the less likely to be hit by a throw or a batted ball. It is mainly to reduce umpire INT or an umpire screw up.

Get better partners, possibly higher ball if need be, and you will see the need to be in A with no runners on. Plus, the angles for plays will be better starting from A.

[gatoremt]

It is an interesting question and there is a well known internet author who advocates exactly that. I have had many arguments about this very discussion.

What are your responsibilties from A?

1. Check Swings

2. Safes/outs at first.

3. Fair/foul from the base to the fence.

4. Troubles balls in RF.

5. Homeruns, balls through/over/under the fence.

Which of these can you do as well or better starting in B? Maybe 5.

1. You can call from the middle but the look is better from the wing.

2. You can call from B, we do it all the time, but it is better from A.

3. Impossible from B.

4. Tough from B, not impossible but not like being in the outfield looking at it.

5. Obvious HRs fine but you can't call anything near the line.

1. Only if that batter is right handed.

2. True but not always.

3. This is very true, but like i said in HS and below I spend most of my time in B or C. Anything below Freshman ball it seems like I live in B or C/

4. true

5. Also true

Great points thanks.

[gatoremt]

I will also add I hate the field. I call about 95% of my games behind the plate. So I am not the best at but always learning. I also hate 2 man. Really wish it was 3 man but nobody wants to pay to have 3 umpires below college.

[mstaylor]

Check swings in two man are your's period. Now I agree a look from A on a LHB is not good but can be called from there.

[poppyfor3]

Surprised you veterans missed the single most important reason for starting in "A". Being closer to the MILF's.

[mstaylor]

Surprised you veterans missed the single most important reason for starting in "A". Being closer to the MILF's.

Visiting MILFs anyway. :)

[gatoremt]

None of our fields have stands by first base :crybaby2:

[zm1283]

I will also add I hate the field. I call about 95% of my games behind the plate. So I am not the best at but always learning. I also hate 2 man. Really wish it was 3 man but nobody wants to pay to have 3 umpires below college.

Try to work the bases more then. It will make you a better umpire overall. Working the bases well in the 2-umpire system is one of the hardest things in officiating if you ask me, and it is just as important as working the plate.

Three umpires would be nice in high school, but I understand why the schools won't pay three. Working with three umpires only works well if everyone is trained correctly. It can be a mess if everyone is not on the same page. A lot of areas don't have enough bodies to supply three for every high school game. A lot of D2 and under college games are done with two umpires as well.

[mazzamouth]

None of our fields have stands by first base

Do you umpire College ball... If so there is no way a assignor will let you call safe's and out's from "B" with no one on base.. ain't gonna happen..

You really need to get to some clinics so you can be taught the right way..

I might add the reason this is taught this way, is cause it has been a proven system.. it works from HS to lower college to the lower minors.

[sdix00]

None of our fields have stands by first base

Do you umpire College ball...

I hear the view is excellent in 'A' . . . in College ball.

[gatoremt]

None of our fields have stands by first base

Do you umpire College ball... If so there is no way a assignor will let you call safe's and out's from "B" with no one on base.. ain't gonna happen..

You really need to get to some clinics so you can be taught the right way..

I might add the reason this is taught this way, is cause it has been a proven system.. it works from HS to lower college to the lower minors.

Hey Mazz,

I dont work college ball. I am just spuring conversation and thinking out loud. It works and is a proven system. Not saying I do what I was asking, was just think out loud. I wish I could go to more clinics just hard to go to them with the way I work and where I work.

[NFUA_44]

None of our fields have stands by first base

Do you umpire College ball... If so there is no way a assignor will let you call safe's and out's from "B" with no one on base.. ain't gonna happen..

You really need to get to some clinics so you can be taught the right way..

I might add the reason this is taught this way, is cause it has been a proven system.. it works from HS to lower college to the lower minors.

Hey Mazz,

I dont work college ball. I am just spuring conversation and thinking out loud. It works and is a proven system. Not saying I do what I was asking, was just think out loud. I wish I could go to more clinics just hard to go to them with the way I work and where I work.

Marshall,

You get the passes, I'll round up the black and white striped Uni's to get some guys out to the job site for a clinic! :nod:

[gatoremt]

HaHa thanks Tom. Not sure if the prison would allow. :big_no