Failed to Gain Ground?

[Astrosdawg07]

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=16966333

[Guest]

Nope.

Start and stop balk.

Check the left knee again right before he pivots to throw over.

[zm1283]

Nope.

Start and stop balk.

Check the left knee again right before he pivots to throw over.

Nope.

Broke his front knee on the jump turn. You can see U2 pointing to the left knee right after he calls it.

Edit: Just needed to clarify: Why do you think this is a start and stop balk? Those are pretty different from what is seen here.

[Jimurray]

Nope.

Start and stop balk.

Check the left knee again right before he pivots to throw over.

Nope.

Broke his front knee on the jump turn. You can see U2 pointing to the left knee right after he calls it.

Tapping the leg was a signal that it was a step balk and an automatic ejection if the manager comes out. There might have been a little distance and direction in slo mo. Real time it looked like no step.

[zm1283]

Nope.

Start and stop balk.

Check the left knee again right before he pivots to throw over.

Nope.

Broke his front knee on the jump turn. You can see U2 pointing to the left knee right after he calls it.

Tapping the leg was a signal that it was a step balk and an automatic ejection if the manager comes out. There might have been a little distance and direction in slo mo. Real time it looked like no step.

I think he gained distance and direction with his left foot.

[Jimurray]

I think you're right. But, it was called a step balk.

[Guest]

It is (was?) my understanding that breaking his front knee like that is the start of committing to throwing the pitch. And since he didn't throw the pitch, a start and stop balk.

Though really its all irrelevant. We don't have to check off a form with a section "balk type" in order to balk a pitcher, so however you want to qualify this balk is almost a personal matter.

I think we can all agree the balk was called because F1 broke his left knee prior to wheeling and throwing to first.

[Mr Umpire]

It is a step balk. That is easy to tell by the signal from U2.

Now, a step balk is very loose b/c it is for several different types of balks. In this case, he lifted his front foot and put it back down. Regardless of which base you think he gained distance toward (or not), he did not gain distance toward 1B when it hit the ground. It is not a start and stop b/c he did not stop his continuous motion.

The knee has nothing to do with it. It is all about where the foot lands in this case. He can bend the left knee and still gain distance toward 1B and throw to 1B legally.

So, it is a failure to step toward 1B and throw to that base. Thus, the step balk call.

[Jimurray]

It is (was?) my understanding that breaking his front knee like that is the start of committing to throwing the pitch. And since he didn't throw the pitch, a start and stop balk.

Though really its all irrelevant. We don't have to check off a form with a section "balk type" in order to balk a pitcher, so however you want to qualify this balk is almost a personal matter.

I think we can all agree the balk was called because F1 broke his left knee prior to wheeling and throwing to first.

No, the umpire indicated a step balk by tapping his leg. That signal tells the manager not to come out. It's in the last PBUC I've read (year unknown) and more than likely the MLBUM.

[Guest]

I'm well aware of the mechanic, what it means, and protocols observed when a step balk is called.

Perhaps Cubby balked him for the wrong reason. The video clearly shows the left foot gaining ground towards 1B.

[Mr Umpire]

I'm well aware of the mechanic, what it means, and protocols observed when a step balk is called.

Perhaps Cubby balked him for the wrong reason. The video clearly shows the left foot gaining ground towards 1B.

After it hit the ground the first time, he lifts it to move toward 1B. Watch it again. You will see his front foot either moves toward HP or 3B first. Then, he moves it back toward 1B. It is b/c he moved his front foot, planted it, and then moved it toward 1B.

[Guest]

Meh, whatever, as long as everyone on here would come up with "that's a balk" on this play, all is good.

[Mr Umpire]

Meh, whatever, as long as everyone on here would come up with "that's a balk" on this play, all is good.

But, if you call it for the wrong reason and a protest is filed, you lose. He balked but not for the start/stop b/c he bent his left knee. Nothing illegal about his knee bending. If that is your explanation, you will lose on that one b/c it was not for a start/stop. It was b/c he stepped toward 3B/HP first, and then stepped toward 1B.

Just having a balk on this is only half of it. Having a balk with rule support and the correct reason is the other part.

[Thunderheads]

guys .... come on.....his front foot moved forward before the pivot .... why is there 12 responses on this?

[zm1283]

It is a step balk. That is easy to tell by the signal from U2.

Now, a step balk is very loose b/c it is for several different types of balks. In this case, he lifted his front foot and put it back down. Regardless of which base you think he gained distance toward (or not), he did not gain distance toward 1B when it hit the ground. It is not a start and stop b/c he did not stop his continuous motion.

The knee has nothing to do with it. It is all about where the foot lands in this case. He can bend the left knee and still gain distance toward 1B and throw to 1B legally.

So, it is a failure to step toward 1B and throw to that base. Thus, the step balk call.

I disagree. You can gain distance and direction (Which I think he did here) and still be called for a balk for breaking your front knee prior to the jump turn. His breaking of the front knee is a separate motion from the rest of his pick off, hence the balk.

I'm well aware of the mechanic, what it means, and protocols observed when a step balk is called.

Perhaps Cubby balked him for the wrong reason. The video clearly shows the left foot gaining ground towards 1B.

I agree.

[Mr Umpire]

It is a step balk. That is easy to tell by the signal from U2.

Now, a step balk is very loose b/c it is for several different types of balks. In this case, he lifted his front foot and put it back down. Regardless of which base you think he gained distance toward (or not), he did not gain distance toward 1B when it hit the ground. It is not a start and stop b/c he did not stop his continuous motion.

The knee has nothing to do with it. It is all about where the foot lands in this case. He can bend the left knee and still gain distance toward 1B and throw to 1B legally.

So, it is a failure to step toward 1B and throw to that base. Thus, the step balk call.

I disagree. You can gain distance and direction (Which I think he did here) and still be called for a balk for breaking your front knee prior to the jump turn. His breaking of the front knee is a separate motion from the rest of his pick off, hence the balk.

I'm well aware of the mechanic, what it means, and protocols observed when a step balk is called.

Perhaps Cubby balked him for the wrong reason. The video clearly shows the left foot gaining ground towards 1B.

I agree.

Then, it will be a balk for making a motion naturally associated with the pitch. Again, nothing illegal about the bending of the left knee.

Also, he gains distance toward 1B AFTER gaining distance toward 3B/HP. Hence, the step balk call. Watch the front foot. It gains distance toward HP/3B. He had a better chance of throwing a pitch and getting away with it than the pickoff. I do not see any separation of motion between moving his front foot and the pickoff to 1B. Or, he would have been called for a start/stop and thus, the step balk mechanic would not have been used.

He clearly used the step balk mechanic which indicates to me he saw the front foot move before the pickoff to 1B.

[Jimurray]

The free foot motion was part of coming set as he was stretching his arms to a stop when he moved the free foot. Of course he was already stopped before that motion but the pros let these guys do weird things

[Jimurray]

Reposted since my IPad doesn't allow editing of prev post.The free foot motion was part of coming set as he was stretching his arms to a stop when he moved the free foot. Edited to delete the already stopped part. Watching the replay shows he stretched to a stop while repositioning the free foot.