DP or not?

[Mr Umpire]

Stealing another thread.

Runner at 2nd, 1 out. Pop-up over 2nd base. Runner stays on base. Shortstop running to make the catch runs into the runner knocking him off the base. Shortstop catches the pop-up and tags the runner who is off the base. Double play or not?

I don't think so but interested in others. Interesting how there are no rules against players pushing runners off of a base. I mean, look at the '91 Hrbek/Gant incident. How could they rule that as Gant's momentum? Otherwise, great series and great finale with a 10th inning final at-bat win for the Twins.

[gixxershane]

I would say not. I would almost consider that an obstruction situation for the runner to stay on 2nd.

It doesn't say a runner has to vacate a base so the fielder can make a play. Only mentions that if the runner is, we'll, um, running. No?

That's how I would rule it, but then again I'm only a rookie compaired to you guys :smachhead:

[SNIPERBBB]

The rule says the runner cannot be called out for the contact with the fielder when in legally contacting a base, unless intentional. Nothing is said about what happens on the subsequent play. I would rule obstruction and the runner stays on second as that would of been the base he would of reached had there been no obstruction. (In a sane world where I hope to live one day, that's how the play would of ended anyways). If you go with the way the rules imply, the OC is hitting the showers.

Edited July 2, 2009 by SNIPERBBB

[moblue]

I would say no DP, regardless of if the contact was accidental/intentional on the part of the defense. The runner would have been on the base had it not been for the shortstop pushing him off. Now, if R2 appeared to be trying to prevent the catch by standing on his base, I would have a DP by 7.08(.

[willv28]

It depends. Base is not a safe haven. So it's a HTBT situation. If the runner made no effort to avoid the fielder if he was making a play, then it's possible he should be out for INT. Doesn't mean he needs to leave the bag, but he can't stand there assuming he can do whatever he wants as long as he's touching. Otherwise, it could be OBS too. Depends on how it happened.

[UmpJM]

Gentlemen,

By definition, this cannot be ruled obstruction; the fielder is "in the act of fielding" a fair batted ball.

By rule, both the fielder and the runner have equal rights to the space where the collision occurred. This is a "legal collision" - a train wreck. Live ball, play the bounce.

The BR is out on the catch, the R2 is out on the tag.

JM

[gixxershane]

Gentlemen,

By definition, this cannot be ruled obstruction; the fielder is "in the act of fielding" a fair batted ball.

By rule, both the fielder and the runner have equal rights to the space where the collision occurred. This is a "legal collision" - a train wreck. Live ball, play the bounce.

The BR is out on the catch, the R2 is out on the tag.

JM

Most likely followed by offensive coach/manager EJ :givebeer:

[MCLEOD36]

If runner on 2nd interferes, that is what it is. In this case, unless he doesnt try to avoid and stands like a statue, I would have interference and either a DP or not depending on situation. If a bump, he catches tags the runner he moved off base. I have a double play; like UMPJM has.

[BrianC14]

HTBT.

The runner can't just disappear, and so a judgement call with some common sense applied is necessary on something like this.

If it were acceptable for a fielder to simply knock a runner off the base, then the players would be wearing shoulder pads & helmets.

[UmpJM]

HTBT.

The runner can't just disappear, and so a judgement call with some common sense applied is necessary on something like this.

If it were acceptable for a fielder to simply knock a runner off the base, then the players would be wearing shoulder pads & helmets.

Brian,

So, if you were the umpire in the OP, what would your judgement call with common sense applied be?

Let's assume the R2 was doing his best to stay out of the F6's way while maintaining contact with 2B, and the F6 was making a completely legitimate effort to catch the fair batted ball, with no intent to even touch the R2.

JM

Edited July 4, 2009 by UmpJM

[chuck]

Relative rookie opinion, but here it goes. No book handy, but I believe that intent is not required for interference, right. R2 interfered, so batter is out. I would rule obstruction based on R2's actions leading up to contact. If he was unaware of fielders approach from behind, or was looking at his coach, etc., I rule obstruction and award him 2B, as he wasn't attempting to advance. If he was holding his ground in an attempt to hinder, then it's interference, which didn't matter as catch was made, and he's tagged out after train wreck. But, then again, was it automatically obstruction, due to contact by fielder, impeding his right to a base, without the ball??

[treedog24]

Stealing another thread.

Runner at 2nd, 1 out. Pop-up over 2nd base. Runner stays on base. Shortstop running to make the catch runs into the runner knocking him off the base. Shortstop catches the pop-up and tags the runner who is off the base. Double play or not?

I don't think so but interested in others. Interesting how there are no rules against players pushing runners off of a base. I mean, look at the '91 Hrbek/Gant incident. How could they rule that as Gant's momentum? Otherwise, great series and great finale with a 10th inning final at-bat win for the Twins.

Unless we are talking slow pitch softball, in which the runner can be hit by a ball while on his base, I have INT on R2 and a DB with BR being placed on 1st. This is HTBT sitch but the fielder has the right to field any hit ball and it is up to the offense to get out of the way. That is why we don't call a runner out for running out of the baseline to avoid a fielder handling a ground ball, correct? I wouldn't call it a DP unless R2 actions were intentional.

[BHanlon]

I am trying to break this down to two individual actions.

A: I would not have OBS on the fly ball as the runner is entitled to the bag. So lacking anything intentional I have allowable contact.

B: I would not have an out on the runner if the fielder knocks the runner off the bag that he is entitled to.

Edited July 6, 2009 by BHanlon

[chuck]

After a look at the book, I agree with Treedog, probably. Interference, R2 out, deadball so no catch, BR at 1st. Or, no interference since SS made the catch, obs on SS and R2 remains. Probably the first as it awards the defense, that has done the least wrong on the play.

[UmpJM]

chuck & treedog,

Can't be interference because the R2 is explicitly allowed by rule to maintain contact with his base as long as he doesn't intentionally interfere with the protected fielder.

Can't be obstruction because the fielder is "in the act of fielding".

Under the rules, neither player did anything "wrong". It's legal contact - a "train wreck".

Live ball, play the bounce.

JM