New Set Position

[mstaylor]

I was watching the adult wooden bat league the other night and a longtime pitcher has come up with a new set position. I know what I thought but thought I would get opinions here. He is a RH pitcher so he puts his right foot on the rubber and his left foot behind the rubber. When he sets he brings his hands together in front of his body at chest level and stops. Then he steps and pitches. Legal or illegal?

[sdix00]

I was watching the adult wooden bat league the other night and a longtime pitcher has come up with a new set position. I know what I thought but thought I would get opinions here. He is a RH pitcher so he puts his right foot on the rubber and his left foot behind the rubber. When he sets he brings his hands together in front of his body at chest level and stops. Then he steps and pitches. Legal or illegal?

Trick question? He is in the windup position.

[mstaylor]

No trick question, he says it is his new set and that it is legal.

[UmpJM]

Michael,

What he says is wrong:

(b ) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop.

JM

[mstaylor]

I know but wanted some others agree.

[sdix00]

He may be wrong about being in the set position. But, because he is in the windup, there should be no issue here, correct?

[UmpJM]

Dix,

As described, I concur that the pitcher did not do anything that would be illegal from the windup position.

JM

[mazzamouth]

Illegal in both pitching positions..

[UmpJM]

mazz,

Which part do you believe is illegal?

JM

[mazzamouth]

mazz,

Which part do you believe is illegal?

JM

It is Illegal in the set and the Windup.

[Mr Umpire]

mazz,

Which part do you believe is illegal?

JM

It is Illegal in the set and the Windup.

OK. Let's elaborate the answer and maybe the question. Why do you think any part of this is illegal? What actually may make it illegal?

[NFUA_44]

Is he maybe trying to call it "set" since he just takes one step after bringing his hands together? I'm having a little bit of trouble picturing the whole thing, not the pieces, but the whole thing and how it would appear.

It sounds like what Dix and JM have said, just a funny looking Windup.

[BigSimonia]

Is he maybe trying to call it "set" since he just takes one step after bringing his hands together? I'm having a little bit of trouble picturing the whole thing, not the pieces, but the whole thing and how it would appear.

It sounds like what Dix and JM have said, just a funny looking Windup.

Can't imagine how this would be considered valid from the Windup position.

"The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in

contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any

natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him

to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the

ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one

step backward, and one step forward with his free foot."

If he's "facing the batter" then I'm imagining that his right foot is on and perpendicular to the pitching plate, with his left foot behind the plate - OK so far. But as I understand the OP, he then starts his movement and "comes set" (stops) and then delivers (restarts) his pitching motion to the plate. I know this is HTBT, but if he starts and stops ("sets") his pitching motion has not been "without interruption or alteration" - and a balk. Maybe I'm just not imagining it right.

[UmpJM]

BigSomonia,

In the initial post on the thread, the description suggests that the only movement the pitcher makes while coming set is

"...he brings his hands together in front of his body at chest level and stops. ...".

If that's all he's doing, he's legal (assuming the adult league MST referenced is not using FED rules). This is (some of) what the MLBUM says in the section describing the Windup position:

(3) Facing the batter, hands apart, pivot foot on the rubber, other foot free. From this position

(hands apart), the pitcher receives the sign from the catcher and then brings his hands

together in a stationary position ("pause") before beginning the delivery. Once the pitcher's

hands are together, he is in the "traditional" windup position. If a pitcher uses this windup

position, the act of bringing his arms up and positioning his hands in front of his body shall

not be construed as the start of his actual delivery UNLESS some other action is initiated by

another part of his body simultaneously and is associated with the actual delivery.

Starting with his hands at his side, then bringing his together and stopping is NOT, by official interpretation, considered "...a natural movement associated with his delivery...".

Except in FED.

JM

[BigSimonia]

BigSomonia,

In the initial post on the thread, the description suggests that the only movement the pitcher makes while coming set is

"...he brings his hands together in front of his body at chest level and stops. ...".

If that's all he's doing, he's legal (assuming the adult league MST referenced is not using FED rules). This is (some of) what the MLBUM says in the section describing the Windup position:

(3) Facing the batter, hands apart, pivot foot on the rubber, other foot free. From this position

(hands apart), the pitcher receives the sign from the catcher and then brings his hands

together in a stationary position ("pause") before beginning the delivery. Once the pitcher's

hands are together, he is in the "traditional" windup position. If a pitcher uses this windup

position, the act of bringing his arms up and positioning his hands in front of his body shall

not be construed as the start of his actual delivery UNLESS some other action is initiated by

another part of his body simultaneously and is associated with the actual delivery.

Starting with his hands at his side, then bringing his together and stopping is NOT, by official interpretation, considered "...a natural movement associated with his delivery...".

Except in FED.

JM

JM - Thanks for the reference. I do mostly HS ball and when I need interps on OBL I usually go to J/R. In this case, J/R was no help since it doesn't describe the three different ways a pitcher can assume the windup as set forth in the MLBUM. Read the MLBUM cite you provided (Interp #49) and learned a thing or two I didn't know or was unclear on. Always something new to know - ain't baseball great?!