Legal Pitch??

[Austex]

So I'm braving the sea of blue to ask my first question from my rookie season, here goes.

The question is in regard to the pitcher in a 14u game pitching from the windup. He starts in the natural position feet together heels on the rubber hands to the side. His pitching motion is to bring his hands together, step and pitch all in one motion with no stop whatsoever. My partner who is PU has 8+ years umpiring and when I asked him about it between innings he said it was a perfectly legal pitching action. I thought from the wind up you need to bring your hands together and come to a stop before delivering the pitch. I let it go and watched this pitcher for the next 2 innings and something just didn't seem right to me. Am I completely missing something here?

[Mr Umpire]

It is legal. He only has to come to a complete stop if pitching from the Set position and runner(s) on base. Otherwise, he doesn't have to come to a complete stop. I'm sure someone can find some video on YouTube or MLB to illustrate that it is legal.

[Austex]

MrUmpire... In the spirit of your signature "don't just settle" is there something i can refer to as irrefutable for future reference. Thanks in advance for the help.

[Thunderheads]

Austex, ...welcome!!!

Please enjoy the forum and feel free to ask questions ...it's all good here!

Google MLB Rules, .....go there and enjoy your reading, you'll see it ...if you don't , ....come back, ask , and we'll show you where it is ....or at least, someone will

ON EDIT: Here ya go!

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/downloads/y2011/Official_Baseball_Rules.pdf

specifically:

Rule 8.01

8.00—The Pitcher.

8.01 Legal pitching delivery. There are two legal pitching positions, the Windup

Position and the Set Position, and either position may be used at any time.

Pitchers shall take signs from the catcher while in contact with the pitcher’s plate.

Rule 8.01 Comment: Pitchers may disengage the rubber after taking their signs but may not step

quickly onto the rubber and pitch. This may be judged a quick pitch by the umpire. When the pitcher

disengages the rubber, he must drop his hands to his sides.

Pitchers will not be allowed to disengage the rubber after taking each sign.

(a) The Windup Position. The pitcher shall stand facing the batter, his pivot foot in

contact with the pitcher’s plate and the other foot free. From this position any

natural movement associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him

to the pitch without interruption or alteration. He shall not raise either foot from the

ground, except that in his actual delivery of the ball to the batter, he may take one

step backward, and one step forward with his free foot.

When a pitcher holds the ball with both hands in front of his body, with his pivot

foot in contact with the pitcher’s plate and his other foot free, he will be considered

in the Windup Position.

Rule 8.01(a) Comment: In the Windup Position, a pitcher is permitted to have his “free” foot on

the rubber, in front of the rubber, behind the rubber or off the side of the rubber.

From the Windup Position, the pitcher may:

(1) deliver the ball to the batter, or

(2) step and throw to a base in an attempt to pick-off a runner, or

(3) disengage the rubber (if he does he must drop his hand to his sides).

In disengaging the rubber the pitcher must step off with his pivot foot and not his free foot first.

He may not go into a set or stretch position—if he does it is a balk.

(B) The Set Position. Set Position shall be indicated by the pitcher when he stands

facing the batter with his pivot foot in contact with, and his other foot in front of, the

pitcher’s plate, holding the ball in both hands in front of his body and coming to a

complete stop. From such Set Position he may deliver the ball to the batter, throw

to a base or step backward off the pitcher’s plate with his pivot foot. Before

assuming Set Position, the pitcher may elect to make any natural preliminary

motion such as that known as “the stretch.” But if he so elects, he shall come to Set

Position before delivering the ball to the batter. After assuming Set Position, any

natural motion associated with his delivery of the ball to the batter commits him to

the pitch without alteration or interruption.

[Mr Umpire]

MrUmpire... In the spirit of your signature "don't just settle" is there something i can refer to as irrefutable for future reference. Thanks in advance for the help.

Yeah. The reference is 8.01 (a) describing the Windup position. Jeff provided it. You'll notice nothing about him having to come to a complete stop. Also, nothing about where his hands have to be. If it isn't in writing, then it is not a violation. All of that is reserved for the Set position.

[Austex]

Thanks for the help, I should have referenced that I had read 8.01 last night. I guess after a long day at work and a couple games last night I was too tired to sit down and wrap my head around the ruling.

[Thunderheads]

Thanks for the help, I should have referenced that I had read 8.01 last night. I guess after a long day at work and a couple games last night I was too tired to sit down and wrap my head around the ruling.

No worries Austex ... get a good night's sleep and come on here in the morning! Better than coffee!:nod:

[mstaylor]

Remember if he goes to a wind-up with runners and does what you thought, bringing both hands up and stopping, then that is a balk. He can start with them in front but if they are hanging then he can't bring them up and stop.

[noumpere]

Remember if he goes to a wind-up with runners and does what you thought, bringing both hands up and stopping, then that is a balk. He can start with them in front but if they are hanging then he can't bring them up and stop.

He can in pro and college but not in HS although its often ignored there too

[mstaylor]

No he can't anywhere. Actually Fed is the most lenient, They allow you to bring your glove up and stop, then your hand, just not both at the same time. The other two allow you a little adjustment time but if you take a hands at your side windup, you can't bring both hands up together and stop.

[noumpere]

No he can't anywhere. Actually Fed is the most lenient, They allow you to bring your glove up and stop, then your hand, just not both at the same time. The other two allow you a little adjustment time but if you take a hands at your side windup, you can't bring both hands up together and stop.

From the college rules book Rule 9-1-a(1) A pitcher may assume the windup poistion with © Hands apart and then bring the hands together and come to a stop to adjust the grip on the ball before beginning the delivery to the plate.

Im sure the pro rule is the same but I dont have a reference for that.

If both hands move at the same time in HS tehn youve committed to pitch.

[mstaylor]

The pro book oesn't address it, it simply says anything naturally associated with his pitch. To me bringing twoo hands up at the same time is the start of the pitch, but that is umpire judgment.

[noumpere]

The pro book oesn't address it, it simply says anything naturally associated with his pitch. To me bringing twoo hands up at the same time is the start of the pitch, but that is umpire judgment.

An old NAPBL Umpire manual has Other pitchers assume their windup with position with their hands apart and then bring theor hands together and come to a stop before their delivery to the plate. Either of these two poistions is considereds a legal windup poistion

Even though the book is old Im certain the ruling hasnt changed and as long as only the hands move this is legal in pro ball

[Mr Umpire]

The pro book oesn't address it, it simply says anything naturally associated with his pitch. To me bringing twoo hands up at the same time is the start of the pitch, but that is umpire judgment.

An old NAPBL Umpire manual has Other pitchers assume their windup with position with their hands apart and then bring theor hands together and come to a stop before their delivery to the plate. Either of these two poistions is considereds a legal windup poistion

Even though the book is old Im certain the ruling hasnt changed and as long as only the hands move this is legal in pro ball

The ruling is the same. It is in section 7.1 (3) of the MLBUM.

(3) Facing the batter, hands apart, pivot foot in contact with the rubber, other foot free. From this position (hands apart), the pitcher receives the sign from F2 and then brings his hands together in a stationary position ("pause") before beginning the delivery. Once F1's hands are together, he is in the "traditional" windup position. If a pitcher uses this windup position, the act of bringing his arms up and positioning his hands in front of his body shall not be construed as the start of his actual delivery UNLESS some other action is initiated by another part of his body simultaneously and is associated with the actual delivery.

[mstaylor]

OK, so OBR needs three parts to make it TOP, Fed is two.

[noumpere]

The ruling is the same. It is in section 7.1 (3) of the MLBUM.

Thanks for the support glad to see i didnt get this one wrong because ms taylor is usually right.