TOMUIC

Gentlemen, I have certainly made my share of mistakes over the years. However, regarding this situation with the BR returning to touch first base (after initially missing it) prior to taking his award, I am optimistic that members will determine that the award does not “reset”.

If the runner is on or past second when the errant throw is released, his award his home plate, if the ball goes dead before he reaches third then he is not allowed to touch third if he wants to legally correct his mistake of missing first base. In either case, the award is home, whether he goes back to correct this mistake or not, this is not a caught flyball. Once again, talk to a real rules clinician and he will tell you that this is correct .

Sorry, missed bases DO NOT “reset” the award when the runner returns (legally) to touch the missed base. The award is solely based on his location at the time of the throw (or pitch). The award IS “reset” on a CAUGHT flyball with the runner attempting to return to the base left TOO SOON. As correctly stated earlier by a member, that is a special case and is an exception to the overthrow award procedure. ANY rules clinician “worth their salt” will know that what is stated above is absolutely correct!

Fine, think what you want, but eventually you will come across the correct answer and I don’t expect you to let us know that you were wrong!

You guys are throwing opinions around for these topics. They are not opinions, they are stated( or not stated) clearly in the rules and in the MLBUM. NEVER has an award been “reset” on a play where the runner legally went back and touched a missed base!! NEVER NEVER NEVER But it won’t matter you guys have to see a “citing” and even after seeing a citing, you argue that the citing is incorrect !!

Finally someone (STK…) gets it correct. Thanks

The OBR do not include a statement such as the following: If a runner returns to touch a missed base (after being awarded additional bases) he may do so ,according to the rules, and then his award will be made from the missed base. if the intention of the rulebook was to make the award (to the runner) from the base missed , it would clearly say so, just as it does with regard to a runner who must return to a base (left too soon) on a caught fly ball! let me end with the following play, which illustrates all aspects of this rule along with LTB Batter gets long hit, misses first base, continues on and is halfway to third when an errant throw is released. By the time the ball goes out of play the batter-runner is 20 feet past third base.The BR stops BEFORE touching the plate, retouches third, but fails to touch second as he returns and touches first, then touches second, third and home. RULING: 1) The correct award is home plate. 2) The runner has legally corrected his mistake (of missing first base) because when the ball became dead his next base (or base beyond) was home plate. 3) Finally, his failure to touch second base while returning to first was corrected under the theory of “last time by”

The question on the table does not refer to the runner’s award when required to return to a base after a caught flyball. The question is if the runner MISSES A BASE, and the ball is thrown out of play and he returns and touches the MISSED BASE, IS THE AWARD MADE FROM THE MISSED BASE OR FROM HIS LOCATION AT THE TIME THE ERRANT THROW WAS RELEASED? THE CORRECT ANSWER IS TOT or TOP (extremely rare occurrence) THE MISSED BASE HAS ABSOLUTELY NO BEARING ON THE BASERUNNER’S AWARD RESULTING FROM THE THROW THAT WENT OUT OF PLAY!!

We are waiting to hear other members’ answers to what the award is, last time by is not even pertinent here.

You know what my answer will be, so let’s wait to see what others have to say, lol

That’s basically what Jim Evans is saying. The way it’s interpreted currently (as he said) “ it’s like a ticking time bomb for the umpire”. But right now we have to live with it. He has brought this up (in the past) to Dusty Dillinger, along with several others who are involved in writing the umpire manual, but nothing has changed yet.

Once again, Jim Evans personally does not agree with the current MLB interpretation on this topic which makes no distinction between an overthrow going out of play causing a dead ball, or any other reason causing time to be called. He was giving his opinion that at the very least the runner should not be allowed to return to a missed base (or one left too soon) if the runner is the one who caused the time out. Again, he was only expressing his opinion, not the official interpretation. Also,where on this thread did someone say that an overthrow award can be based on the runner’s location when the ball becomes dead?

I have been in touch with Jim Evans regarding the original offensive play. Unfortunately, people on this site will not believe me, but I will tell you what he said regarding this play: Even though he strongly disagrees, at the present time, MLB does not make a distinction between a dead ball caused by a throw that goes out of play, and one that is caused by time being called. Hence the correct interpretation to the original offensive play is that the runner can return to correct his mistake at first base and will be ruled safe on appeal. Regarding the award to a runner who returns to touch a missed base, the award is made from the runner’s location at the time of the errant throw (or pitch if pertinent) not from the base he missed. In addition: At the very least, Jim feels that the runner should not be allowed to return to the missed base if he is the one who requested time to be called.

You were insisting that the award is made from the base he must retouch (having missed it) and that’s not true, in the example I gave the award is still home plate because first base was missed (not left too soon on caught flyball)

Would anyone like to verify the correctness of the following ruling under OBR? Batter gets long hit,misses first base and his halfway to third when a throw is released and goes into dead area when the batter-runner is now 5 feet passed third base. The Umpire awards the runner Homeplate. Before advancing to home plate the runner retouches third ,second,and first base and then proceeds to touch second third and home. Ruling: 1) The runner has legally corrected his mistake. 2) his award is indeed home plate.

Rule (sorry)

Meant to say OBR and NCAA have the same name

Thank you Senor Azul, the rule in OBR is very different from these other rule codes that are being cited.

The reason that you cannot find a citation is because what you’re claiming is not part of the rulebook. Unlike the “specific award from his original base) given to a runner returning after a caught fly ball (which is clearly covered in the rulebook), the OBR DO NOT contain a specific award given to a runner who “ misses a base and “legally” returns to it (while the ball is dead) to correct the base running infraction. According to the rules, all that matters is the runner’s location at the time of the errant throw or pitch (if pertinent). knowing what IS NOT in the rulebook is just as important as knowing what IS IN the rulebook. For example, the rulebook does not say that a fielder can kick a ball intentionally to another fielder in making a play, yet we all know that a fielder can certainly do that, we don’t need a citing to verify it. I would suggest that your research on this matter include speaking to others who are well-versed in the OBR. Don’t take my word for it. But in the end you will see that I am correct along with everyone else that understands the rules thoroughly. PS: maybe another member can chime in on this to validate this commonly understood concept..

Mr. Beerguy; if a batter misses first base and is heading to third as a throw is released from the outfield which goes dead when he is halfway home, he can stop before touching home plate, go back touch third, touch second, touch first, and his award is still home, so he can continue to touch second, third and go home and score. That is it, please research that and you’ll see I am correct

Put simply, when a runner is attempting to return to a base on a caught flyball he will be awarded 2 bases from his original base, that is exactly what the comment says that I referred to earlier. However, when he misses a base, his award is determined by his location at the time of the release of the errant throw or time of pitch (if pertinent)

Refer to 5.06(b)(4)(1) COMMENT (Last Paragraph)

You are half correct, if he returns to first having left early on a fly ball caught his award will be third. If he returns to first to retouch because he missed first base, his award would still be home plate.

Exactly, and he was already on second when the ball became dead, hence his next base is third base.

SenorAzul,with all due respect, you have missed this one, please refer to the MLBUM cite that I mentioned earlier in this thread. You’r citing has nothing to do with this particular offensive play.