umpire_scott

So I'm doing a middle school district tournament a few years ago. I'm not someone that ejects coaches or players often at all. Probably ejected 10 coaches and 3 players in 10 years. Two of the three players happened in the same game, and I felt really bad about it afterwards. Situation is that the home team was getting beat 8-2 in the 5th inning. We were nearing the time limit as well. FED rules were in play. The home team was heavily favored to win the game and the pitcher was clearly frustrated. During her warm-ups her mechanics were getting very sloppy. Earlier in the game during warm-ups I noticed her coming to the rubber with her hands already together. I reminded her to make sure she started with her hands apart. She usually did it correctly but when things weren't going her way she would get sloppy with it. So prior to the 5th inning I notice that she is starting with her hands apart, but never bringing them together during the pitch. I politely remind her that she needs to bring her hands together or it will be an illegal pitch. She rudely says "Well you need to make up your mind". I calmly tell her that she was doing two different things wrong. And explained the proper way. I tell her if she speaks to me like that again I will eject her. I then ask her to assure me that she know what I mean regarding the proper pitching technique. She incredibly sarcastically yells "First I do this (shows her arms apart), then I do this (brings her hands together). I probably should have just let it go, but she was so rude that I ejected her. Now her coach comes running out of the dugout telling me that I can't eject her. I explained that I warned her about how she was speaking to me and she continued. He puts in a new pitcher, but is not happy. As the new pitcher is warming up the catcher takes off her mask, and yells to the defense "Don't say anything to the umpire or you might be ejected". I was flabbergasted. I asked the coach if he was o.k. with what his catcher just did. He responded with "as long as she wasn't talking to me he had no issue with it". I calmly warned the catcher about her conduct. She responds with "you suck. You're the worst umpire I've ever seen". So I eject her as well. At this time chaos is breaking out with the fans. One of the Dads is coming around the backstop to come after me. The site director steps in front of the Dad and says "one more step and I'm calling the police". In the meantime glance at the dugout and see the coach holding back his pitcher that I ejected as she is trying to come on the field with a bat in her hand. The only think I could think of doing differently is as soon as the girl snapped at me just go to her coach explain the situation and that I was going to call an illegal pitch on every infraction, but I would not help her beyond this.

So you carry it for baseball but not softball? Or you won't carry it on the bases no matter the sport? I presume you just kick clean the bags and pitching plate then? To each his own, but I always thought it made me look unprofessional or unprepared to not have an indicator and brush on the bases.

So just playing devil's advocate for a moment how would you handle the following: Runner stealing third; throw pulls third baseman off the bag and he attempts swipe tag of runner. Runner knowing he's dead on a good throw slides to the outside to avoid the tag and attempt to grab bag with hand but misses. Or for that matter he slides too early and never gets to the bag. Let's assume that he's not outside the baseline so that is not a potential call. 1. Would you make the safe call on the missed tag, even though the runner missed the bag? The case play was at first base which to me is a little different because you are entitled to overrun first. 2. I could see the DC coming out and arguing that his third baseman did not attempt a second tag, because he heard safe called and thus assumed he had got to the bag.

It does seem that way. Scrounge at least acknowledged that he understood what I was saying. Sometimes when I seem to be "digging my heels in" it's because I'm looking for that recognition of understanding. I'm not looking to change minds or for people to agree with me. I don't know if it's a right or wrong situation as much as it's a "consider your partner" situation. Maybe I'm too sensitive to my partner's feelings on this. If most umpires think the way this board does then that would be the case for sure.

That's exactly the position I find myself in.

I want to commend you Scrounge on being one of the few posters here that actually reads a post and attempts to answer in a non-confrontational way. There are a few others as well, but you stand out in that area for sure.

Ask a question respectfully and I'll answer it. Try playing inane comedian and I ignore it.

Well if it is covered in the training then that is fine.

That must be. Because it is clearly taught in FP softball. I'll try and get away from it when doing baseball.

I had a coach try to get his runner from first home on a ground-rule double because he was already "on his way to third".

I was just always trained to not make a safe or out call right away. Let the play happen and then make your call to avoid calling safe then out or out then safe. I guess I interpreted this to mean in all circumstances.

I learned something new today. I never knew that you would signal "safe" to indicate a missed tag. Clearly the quoted rules say to do this.

The play that happens roughly once a game in MLB games is a simple umpire appeal. In many of these cases I have no idea if an emphatic verbal was made by the plate umpire. So these are two different situations in my opinion. What's your point? People seem to be inferring that I seldom overturn any check swing appeals and that I would get offended if anyone ever overturned mine. My point is that these situations are different. So to say it happens once a game in MLB is incorrect. The one that happens once a game in MLB is completely irrelevant to my point.

Like I said I really do not care if my partner changes my call. I may be 100% sure "he didn't go" but maybe he saw something I didn't see. The fact is the PU is not the one that looks bad when BU changes a call. BU is the one that is going to have to answer to the coach. To be honest I don't really care either. But I know umpires that do, and thus I have considered that when making this decision. Like I said it's a judgement call anyway. I see BU's blow this call in MLB all the time. It happens so fast that unless it's really obvious it's a very difficult call to make. So when I'm on the bases when I see a check swing I make a mental note in my head of whether I "thought" he went or not. Oftentimes I'm more sure than others. If my PU comes to me right away with "did he go" I give him my call with no consideration to whether he saw it or not. If he yells "no he didn't, ball", then a few seconds later at the request of the catcher asks me "did he go?", I'm going to consider the circumstances a little bit before making my call. If it's an umpire I've never worked with before I'm probably just going to give the no swing signal. Clearly if it's a game changing call or really obvious then I'm going to get the call right.

The play that happens roughly once a game in MLB games is a simple umpire appeal. In many of these cases I have no idea if an emphatic verbal was made by the plate umpire. So these are two different situations in my opinion.

Jaxrolo, So let's say you emphatically and confidently say "no he didn't". You know that he held up. The catcher asks you to ask you to appeal to your partner. a) Do you go to your partner or do you tell the catcher that you saw it fine and made the call? B) If you felt that you saw it fine, but decide to just go to your partner to pacify the catcher, and your partner signals strike, how do you feel? I've worked with guys that I could tell were miffed that I overturned their call. So I'm more careful now about making my partner look bad in those situations. I mean we are talking about a check swing here. It's not black and white. It's a judgement call. They get it wrong all the time in MLB. So for me to change a judgement call like that, the circumstances will come into consideration.

I would respond to this with "I don't talk to assistant coaches, cut it out". If he chooses to continue his "antics", he would be sent packing. I would also not go to their dugout or talk to the HC about him. Just curious why won't you talk to an assistant coach that calls time and asks for an appeal on a pulled foot? He's the one that was in the first base coaches box. The head coach was at 3rd and him appealing it would have been illogical as he was further away than I was. I guess I could have waited for the head coach to call time and then confer with the assistant and then come talke to me, but that seems rather inefficient. Are you saying you would never talk to the assistant or this particular nutcase assistant. I'm also curious as to why you would not have talked to the coach? Is it just that you feel that it could cause more harm than good in that you never know how that situation will come out? I can see that line of thinking for sure. I often leave those situations alone, but sometimes I like to be proactive about a coach to avoid a third occurrence of the same thing.

St. Louis County.

Let me be clear, I never go to my partner on a check swing that I call a strike. But I have had PU do this when the catcher asked them to. I, of course, have always signaled strike. I also go to my BU immediately with an emphatic "did he go" on any questionable check swings. But not all PU's do this. So when I'm on the bases if the PU comes to me, and it's for help on a call that he had confidently and emphatically made I'm going to think long and hard about overturning the call because it will make him look bad. That's all I'm saying. This is never an issue when I'm the PU, because I don't generally put myself in those situations.

These are the only circumstances you should consider: Is it a valid appeal, and if so, do you judge the batter made an attempt. It's really not that difficult. If they ask, go. If the batter has an opportunity to become a runner, go without them asking. Who are you telling to "go". If who asks?

I'm not an ump, I'm a lurking daddy coach learning the rules. But from a lot of lurking, I've learned quite a bit about mechanics, rules interps, and why they are done the way they are. If you've "never heard of" this, it is a pretty clear indication that you do not have the same level of training and experience of many of the posters on this board. You might consider that there is a lot of expereince here and that you are going to get more out of learning from other posters than you are from telling people what you do yourself. Just something to consider. Only one umpire, Matt, has said he does this. That could easily indicate it's something that is done in his region or a mechanic taught at his association.

As I said earlier I would consider the circumstances.

I will also give him what I honestly saw in a case where he asks immediately. If he makes an emphatic "no he didn't". Then the catcher asks him to come to me for help, I'm not overturning him from a bad position to do it in the first place. I can't believe that you can't see how that would make him look really bad. I see what you're saying, even if I don't entirely agree. Though I don't entirely disagree either. It sounds like you're saying when the PU really didn't want to ask or feel it was necessary but did it by request. If he really doesn't want to come to you, he should just wear it and say no. But maybe he's just looking for backup, I dunno.Unless I was positive that he was just mollifying some whiners, I'd come back with my honest answer as to swing or not. That's exactly what I was saying. I used to never go for help on a RH batter when my BU was in "C". I would just tell the catcher, "he's not in a position to make that call". Our UIC said that it's better to just pacify the catcher and go to your partner whenever they ask you to. So in cases where it's clear that they are going to me somewhat reluctantly, I'm going to consider the circumstances somewhat when deciding whether to overrule them.

So how is a new umpire supposed to know when it's "following the rules" and "nitpicking"? I see people quoting the rule and casebook all the time. Yet here is a case where it's clearly a rule, and it's black and white not interpretation needed, and I'm being told that it's "nitpicking to the nth degree" to call it.

He has brought his hands together to do this so he has simulated a motion that he typically does while pitching, then stopped his delivery. 7-4-d.