umpire_scott

If you can tell the difference between a tomato and an elephant, then you can tell the difference between a newbie coach that simply wants to get a feel for your zone (some call the top of the zone a little more and some call the bottom, etc) and a coach that is working you. If it's in the middle of the game it is almost certainly the latter. I almost always say I call the zone as it's defined in the book. But in either case I agree with Maven, don't say anything that comes across as confrontational. Some view defensiveness as a sign of guilt or uncertainty. I have had some young catchers innocently ask me before the game what my zone is. I usually just reply "I call the entire zone, letters to bottom of knee over the entire plate." I know that technically "letters" is not part of the defined zone, but a 12 year old is going to here "the mid-point between, blah, blah, blah."

You checked off three things I saw coaches do this weekend that had me shaking my head.

So in a previous thread there was mention of coaches asking umpires about another umpires call. Some on here mentioned that if one time you confirm the other umpires call, but another time said, "that's his call" or something along those lines that you might be giving the impression that you didn't agree with the call. I can see that perspective. So this weekend I had a situation doing three-man and I was U3, bases empty so I was in "D". Ground ball to F4, throw to F3, foot was on the back of the bag and it looked like it pulled a little. I had come inside in case runner went to second. U1 called BR out. Third base coach who was also the head coach immediately says to me "Did you have a better angle to see if he pulled his foot?". In this case I did not and told him so. But I was thinking what stock answer to you guys give? Does that answer change if you saw a pulled foot?

And the other problem are tournament directors that get paid by the teams so they want to keep teams happy so they pressure umpires to "get help" as a way to pacify the coaches.

I'd also be worried about being in the way of the throw if I came inside. I'd think if it was going to be a bang-bang play though you'd probably have time to get inside if you followed close behind the runner.

If there was I ddin't hear it.

I had he converse of that, sort of. Two-man, I'm in "C". Ground ball to F6, R2 runs in front. F6 is about 6 feet behind the R2 and coming in. He fields the ball with a slight bobble and throws the BR out at first. As I trot back to "C" I here my partner telling the now R3 that he is out. What? He says "the ball hit him". I'm thinking I was right there and the ball did not hit him. We get together to confer and he is adamant that he was looking at it the whole time and the ball glanced off R2. Well I don't feel I can tell him that he didn't see what he said he saw, so we rule R2 out. I was right there and I'm 99% certain the ball never touched the runner.

If there was cheese on the ball but not on the glove could he have used that as evidence of no catch?

On another note, use the term "powder blue" and not "baby blue". Did a game a few weeks ago and I communicated with my partner over the phone about shirt colors. We agreed on navy. Or so I thought. I was saying navy and he was saying baby. We showed up with different colored shirts. Thankfully I had my 'powder" blue in the car and it was a quick switch.

I would say powder and cream are the two most popular colors here and it's not even close. Red would actually be third. One reason for that though is that the tournament organizer that I do a lot of games for gets shirts made with his logo on it and gives them to umpires. He doesn't necessarily care if you wear his shirt, but they are a great light material and they are really sharp looking with some white trim on the shoulder and hemline. And he only has them in powder, cream, and red. I actually wear them on the bases with no undershirt (buttoned up all the way of course) as they breath really well and I'm far cooler that way.

I actually was meaning to ask if it could be interpreted as a quick pitch if F1 pitched as soon as the batter was ready because F1 was already set when the batter got in the box. I know it's not a balk when they come set before the batter is in the box. I used to think that but was corrected about that last year on this board. So now I've been doing as you do by stopping it as soon as it happens. But I've been doing it when I'm BU if I don't see the the PU doing it.

Correct. Which I would allow as long as the batter was ready when he did it and watched him do it. At that point the batter is seeing the pause. I am just not comfortable with the batter looking up and already seeing him set.

Sorry my question was in response to both yours and Rich Ives responses who did say "the pitcher can come set before the batter is ready all day long" and MUAUmp2 who said simply "yes" to my comment. It appears as if they were implying that no preventive umpiring should be done as it's not a rules violation. So I was seeing if it was reasonable to interpret it as a quick pitch given that the batter expects to see a discernible pause when coming set just like the runner and umpire. And I agree this is only really an issue in lower levels. But many umpires allow it to go on

So is it not reasonable for a batter to expect that when he steps into the box and looks at F2 pitching from the stretch that he will see F2 begin his motion and come to a set position, pause, and then deliver the pitch? Generally when pitchers do this it is a glitch not something they do every time. So the batter has become accustomed to that process. If all of a sudden he sets himself in the box and gets ready and the pitcher delivers the pitch as he's already come set, then hasn't he delivered the pitch before the batter was ready? I ask this because I had two instances yesterday where F2 came set before batter was ready. As soon as batter was ready and looked up, F2 delivered pitch. Both times the batter kind of looked at the PU as if to say "what the hell?". One time first base coach yelled "he quick pitched". But technically it was not a quick pitch because the batter was ready and looking when the pitch was delivered. When I'm PU I always tell the F2 to step off if he comes set before the batter is ready. Unfortunately most umpires I work with do not incorporate this practice. They wait for after it happens and the batter requests to be given time by holding his hand up.

So the pitcher can come set before the batter even enters the box? What about if he is one foot in and taking signs?

Doing a 19U consolation game yesterday. Bottom of the 5th VT winning 8-0, R3 with 2 outs (there is an 8 run mercy rule after 5 innings). Pitch comes in high and tight. F2 doesn't even get a glove on it. Hits me square on the shoulder. Luckily it was right where my hard plastic is. Didn't really hurt at all. What hurt way worse was the ball ricocheting off me towards the third base dugout and R3 coming home to extend the game. We played the full 7 innings after that.

I 12-year old told an umpire "you do your job and I'll do mine?". That 12-year old's "job" would have been sitting on the bench and running wind sprints until he puked if I were his coach.

And so since that rule was changed to state "intentionally" the following year, then technically the crew in that game did not get it wrong? I'm an ASU alum so I'm still losing sleep over it.

So it has been my practice to tell the pitcher to step off if I'm in "B" or "C". I just felt it would look bad for the crew if I did it from "D". Is everyone in agreement that I shouldn't even do it from "B" or "C"? Unfortunately I work a lot of tournaments where there is not an evaluation of umpires and some of the umpires get lazy and don't care about this stuff. Additionally I originally thought coming set before the batter was in the box was a balk based on the quick pitch verbiage. I was told by umpires on this forum that I should be telling the pitcher to "step off" when I notice this. So by me not getting this from "B" or "C" and then him pitching won't I have a balk for a quick pitch? And then won't it be my responsibility for calling that even if I'm in "B" or "C"?

With all due respect noumpere I can list all the advice I've taken on this forum and applied it. I no longer take a plate brush to clean the bases. I've learned many new rules interpretations. I've been on this forum for a few years and have posted numerous times. The vast majority of my games go off without a hitch. I just like to get input on those situations that do occur so I post on almost all of them. So it may seem like I have a lot of issues on the field. That is not the case at all. I've also improved a lot in this area so I have even fewer issues than I once did. I've admitted my faults regarding communicating with coaches during tense situations and being indecisive on calls. But I don't take all advice. Some of it simply won't work for me. I think sometimes communicating on forums creates disagreements that would never exist in face to face communications. I appreciate you reply. I admit that I defend my respect vociferously. I don't take lightly being disrespected. But also remember that it is also a positive character trait that when someone points out that a person is being condescending that the person see it and take responsibility for it. I was pretty sarcastic in a comment to someone last week. When they reacted based on that I replied "that was sarcastic and I apologize". I'd like to see the same humility at times from some members on this board. Humility is a good quality to have and it would better serve the purpose of this board if some on this board developed it.

Thanks for the reply Maven. I was speaking specifically about high-level umpires on these forums, not at clinics. I've never had that experience at clinics I've attended. I would be interested in your opinion about the multiple private messages I've received from umpires that have chosen to view rather than post on these forums because of the condescending approach taken by several of the other umpires. I appreciate that you give your opinion, but always do so in a respectful manner.

Matt calling "time" during a live ball situation is something I've literally never seen any moderately experienced umpire do, let alone someone at my experience level. Now you may not like me based on my responses on these forums. But I have done games as high as junior college. I've been evaluated by my association and worked games with my association VP and they felt comfortable assigning me junior college games. So I'm not an umpire that is going to call "time" while the ball is in play. I clearly stated that I would never engage the coach as the ball was still live. That should be enough for you to assume that I would respect a ball in play enough to not kill the play just to engage the coach. I feel as if you are just being stubborn about this. When people are posting on this forum it is not a college thesis. We may leave certain details out. If you truly were not clear about what I was stating then I apologize. I don't believe that to be the case. My past experience from witnessing your responses to me and some others is that you like to look at a post and critique it when it comes from someone you don't respect as a "high-level" umpire.

Do I really have to spell it out to you Matt? You insulted me by implying that I was a bad umpire and insinuating that I just might call time in the middle of live ball play. You told me to take that as I will and I did just that. So in return I insulted you by stating that maybe the reason you didn't get what I was saying the first time is that you felt calling time during live ball play was something you might do. It makes perfect sense and I sense you are intelligent enough to know that, but just too stubborn to admit it.

Running three-man. R2 and I'm U3 in D. Pitcher comes set prior to batter being ready in the box. I see and expect one of my partners to call "time" and ask F1 to step off. By the time neither of them do the pitch is delivered and it's a strike. Should I do/have done: A. Nothing. B. Call "time" after the pitch, confer with my partners, and tell them I think we should have a "no pitch" as the batter was not ready. C. Call "time" myself as soon as I notice F1 come set prior to batter being ready. I was reluctant to do "C" as I felt this was my partner in "B" or the plate umpires place to make that call.

That's interesting. So basically if the batter intentionally interferes with ball 4 with R1 stealing second you could call the batter out for interference? This doesn't make sense to me as there is no reason for a throw. R1 is entitled to second base on the walk.